Humans Will Never Colonize Mars

Discussion in 'Science' started by Lil Mike, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Think I would prefer humans in the control room and humans turning the valves.
     
  2. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,671
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If they want to go then why should anyone else care?
     
    jay runner likes this.
  3. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's like bungee jumping. You know that the rubber band might break. It's like climbing Everest. You know that you might run out of oxygen & stroke out, or slip off a rock face and roll through shat before the hard, fatal, or unrescue-able landing. It's like taking a canoe over the Chain of Rocks knowing your chances are slim. It's like being a fighter pilot -- when the cockpit seals you know it could be the last time it does. But you do it for the glory and the accolades and to be a cut above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    Dayton3 likes this.
  4. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,219
    Likes Received:
    5,403
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    it's weeks of boring travel with a mostly unchanging view..
     
    WillReadmore and jay runner like this.
  5. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,219
    Likes Received:
    5,403
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So.. the futurist want to have AI and self driving cars and machinery here.. but people in the harsh environment of space? That's backwards.. My futurist vision is robots and AI in space.. supervised by technicians in a round (ball shaped) facility in geocentric orbit around Earth from which they rotate down to a park like Earth for R&R.
     
  6. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,219
    Likes Received:
    5,403
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Technicians who operate mining equipment and eat pizza rolls (LOL) it would look much like they were playing video games. The ball shape of the facility is to provide gravity on many floors.
     
  7. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,671
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Explorers have been enduring much worse for centuries.
     
  8. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,219
    Likes Received:
    5,403
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is just no need for it.. if private enterprise wants actual human beings to travel the solar system.. fine. the logistics for robots is so much easier , a much lighter load, and the robots can even be build from materials harvested from asteroids and other bodies, so lighter payloads can be sent further into the solar system.
    At present there is no evidence that speeds approaching light are possible with solid material.. UFOs (if they are alien to our planet) would seem to operate interdimensionally.. no record of one entering the atmosphere has be recorded .. has it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    tecoyah likes this.
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,287
    Likes Received:
    22,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We actually know a lot due to the ISS. However what we've learned has been very discouraging. So much so that I've changed my mind on the possibility of long term space habitation.

    NASA Twins Study Verifies Long-Term Health Effects of Space Travel
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,479
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My understanding is that protection from radiation by use of water requires a one or two meter thickness.

    That's a lot of water. While water is useful even as a source of fuel, it's also incredibly heavy and expands when frozen. Plus, if it gets used for something else then it's no longer available for shielding.

    Maybe water would be only one component or only depended upon during the outbound trip. There are ideas of making a "magnetosphere" around the ship. I have no idea how much energy that would require.

    We can all come up with sources of mass or energy for surrounding the humans for radiation protection. But, that doesn't mean there is an actual engineering solution that fits with launch capability, length of trip, etc, etc.
     
  11. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But you might get your name in a history book, or even a tickertape parade.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,671
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You don't need to surround a large area with the water though. Just enough to create a so called "storm cellar" for the crew during times of elevated solar activity.
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,479
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes - and good cite. Unfortunately, it's a demonstration that we're still learning how much protection of various kinds is required.

    I'm wondering what the psych folks are thinking about having a tiny number of humans locked inside a small tube for the minimum of a year. Surely they won't have the room or activities available in the ISS.
     
    Lil Mike likes this.
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,479
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The radiation from deep space is serious. There is a constant stream of particles out there flying around at energies that we can't create even in a modern superconducting supercollider. There needs to be significant protection throughout the trip - plus more if there is a solar storm.
     
  15. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Using water makes it easier to slip and fall on the secondary radiation.


    JK.
     
    Lil Mike and WillReadmore like this.
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,479
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes! Travel time for a mission to Mars would be about a year.
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,287
    Likes Received:
    22,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have a record of nuclear subs that stay submerged for months at a time, so it's a starting point. I actually think the psychological aspects are easier to handle than the physiological ones.
     
  18. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's a pretty stringent battery of tests to qualify for submarine duty.
     
  19. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Perhaps we should distinguish between “cannot” vs “we have no reason to incur the expense at this time”. I suspect that we could figure out how to colonize mars if it were “really important” to us.... which it is not.

    As an example: we went to the moon fifty years ago. But we have not gone back, let alone colonized the moon. That has not happened because there was not much reason to go to the moon other than proving that we “could” do it. But now that we know that we can do it, we have to come up with a reason why we should do it again
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    ToddWB, WillReadmore and Lil Mike like this.
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,479
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That may be why some pilot does it.

    But, it isn't why our military does it.

    And, the military and other citiznes do care about pilot lives - even if the pilot doesn't.
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,287
    Likes Received:
    22,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    True, and even more stringent standards and testing for astronauts.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,479
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Interesting point.

    That does seem reasonably similar, though my bet is that there is less to do while coasting along in space for months.
     
    jay runner likes this.
  23. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Mars should never be considered a stopping point, but a short sojourn to something sustainable. Colonizing Mars would be a human failing, because it would still require so much aid from Earth. Our goals need to be finding places to move that can actually sustain populations entirely on their own. Granted we should at least put something on Mars, but only as a temporary station, not permanent living...
     
  24. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    12,497
    Likes Received:
    2,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    22 years.

    And I never heard of that, and I went through MCRD in 1983.

    And an appendectomy still required a waiver. Just as ADD does.
     
  25. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well allow me to show you.

    http://www.recruitparents.com/bootcamp/wisdom-teeth.asp

    http://recruitparents.com/bootcamp/complete-care.asp

    If your son is lucky, they'll pull his wisdom teeth. Every recruit is evaluated on a case by case basis. Pulling them after they hit the operating forces is too late; he should be learning how to kill the enemy and not taking rest days for dental surgery. Recruits get plenty of medication and time off after getting their wisdom teeth pulled. Their "agony" is kept to a minimum in recruit training, since learning to deal with hardship, pain, and loss is something they'll never experience in combat.
     

Share This Page