Hypothetical war with Iran

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by HurricaneDitka, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Complete and utter nonsense -- to "seize" means to take with force; the fact a ship can defend itself in no way means it cannot be seized because the defenses can be overtaken, provided the attacker has sufficient force to do so. Once the defenders are overwhelmed, the ship is "seized".
    How do you not know this?

    Wait- I'll answer my own question:
    I understand your confusion here, as Iran has no capacity to "seize" a US ship willing and able to defend herself and so has only been able to "seize" ships w/o that capacity.
    No. I'm trying you to demonstrate Iran had the capacity to seize US ships with the ability and willingness to defend themselves.
    You keep avoiding this because you know Iran has no such capacity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen so far, they;d be better off if he did.
     
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    ... that Iran was able to "seize" because they had no capacity or willingness to defend themselves.
    You are fully aware of the fact Iran has -no- capacity to "seize" a US ship that IS willing and able to defend herself.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what is the definition of "able and willing" to defend? Where these soldiers able and willing to defend themselves?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karbala_provincial_headquarters_raid
    In any case, the report below illustrates how America tries to 'seize' things (including vessels and here people) it doesn't like. Other than nukes, America's control of the global economic system and the paper money churned out by it, is the area where America indeed has a decided advantage over Iran.

    Incidentally, the Karbala Provincial Headquarters Raid came after the US raided the Iranian consulate in Erbil Iraq, abducting 5 Iranian diplomats and some of their computers, but before they were released in 2009 after spending a couple years in captivity. The fact that 5 American soldiers and some computers were taken in the raid immediately led to suspicion that the raid was orchestrated by Iran's Quds force.

    https://www.stripes.com/us-offers-m...ranian-planner-of-deadly-2007-attack-1.610080
    US offers multi-million dollar bounty for info on Iranian planner of deadly 2007 attack

     
  6. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Your ignorance is willful, as the meanings of these words are plain on their face.
    The sailors you cite were unwilling to defend themselves as they were ordered not to do so.

    You are fully aware of the fact Iran has -no- capacity to "seize" a US ship that IS willing and able to defend herself.
     
  7. braindrain

    braindrain Newly Registered

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    Please tell me you didn't not intend for that little video to be impressive.
    It looks like they ripped their tactics and equipment off from a low budget 80s action movie.

    Sorry but if you had any real military experience or knowledge you would be more embarrassed then proud of such silliness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020 at 7:56 AM
  8. braindrain

    braindrain Newly Registered

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    Listening to someone try and act knowledgeable about military matters when they don't know the difference between fast roping and parachuting is a struggle in trying to not laugh out loud.
     
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  9. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pick up your rope and follow meeeeeeee lol
     
  10. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Guilty as charged! First, I don't know the difference between someone parachuting down and someone roping down. After all, I did mistakenly introduced the video saying it shows Iran's force "parachuting" when obviously they were roping down from their helicopters. Second, I am certainly no 'military expert'. Those of you who are or pretend to be, need to beef up your credentials and get published so I can cite your views as well. For now, I have relied on what those who have any pretense of being 'experts' say and have relied on conveying what they actually have said. Which is different in many cases than the propaganda narratives for clueless people who are glued to their favorite propaganda organs, whether FOX or otherwise.

    In the meantime, in my next post, I will hopefully help enlighten you on the difference between propaganda and actual attempts to impart credible information about military issues.
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I am going to take the example of the delivery the other day of 3 Kowsar fighter jets to the Iranian air force to illustrate the difference between propaganda and factual coverage. I do so despite the fact that Iran's aeronautics industry, when it comes to manned aircraft, is actually the weakest and least developed part of its military industrial complex.

    This video shows the Kowsar fighters delivered to the air force.


    The few western reports about the delivery of these aircraft (hardly major news even in Iran), on the other hand, were meant merely for propaganda: not meant for anything other than to say: A) don't trust anything Iran says and B) following Iran's road emphasizing 'self-sufficiency' won't get you anywhere.

    Of course, Iran engages in propaganda of its own. On this issue, its propaganda is to say: Yes we can. Self-sufficiency is the right road. And we are succeeding.

    Whose version is closer to the truth? On balance, Iran. Regardless that I too can post pictures showing how similar the Kowsar looks on the outside to the old F-5 fighter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 2:56 AM
  12. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol if you knew the definition of Propaganda you'd know what you're doing right now...
     
  13. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You should bold that, and type it in all caps.
    Might want to use red, as well.
     
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  14. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason for that - it IS the old Vietnam-era USAF F-5.
    Iran reverse-engineered the airframe and put some lipstick on it.
     
  15. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Not even the propaganda outfits can be that clueless. Before the Kowsar officially joined the Iranian air force, it was featured in an international air exhibition in Moscow in 2017. When it joined the Iranian air force, Iran also released videos and pictures showing its production line, its cockpit, radar, avionics, engine and armaments. But in case anyone is so foolish to imagine the Kowsar is the "old F-5", they are invited to sit in an old F-5 in actual combat against the Kowsar and find themselves blown away before even knowing what hit them.
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    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com/2020/05/mass-produced-kosar-fighter-jet-able-to.html
    Mass-produced Kosar fighter jet able to use advanced missiles: cmdr.
     
  16. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea if this is true or not.
    But hey! Congrats on mastering early 1960s technology!
     
  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I have a good idea, because it is NOT 1960s technology. Now, if you guys were truly experts as you claim, you would quickly realize why just from the pictures I posted.

    Apart from the air frame design, which is copied from the F-5 because Iran has already invested heavily in a long list of industries to build spare parts and provide training and other things for those planes and isn't going to waste its money at this stage to come up with a less tested 'air frame' and have to build a long list of new items for it, the rest of the fighter is 4th generation. And 'air frames' and such platforms aren't what matters: what matters is, among other things, those that give a plane the ability to shoot missiles beyond visual range and to deliver smart munitions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 2:16 PM
  18. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You are certainly no 'military expert', so no, you don't.
    You simply repeat propaganda.
    It is.
    You simply repeat propaganda.

    Fourth-generation jet fighter is a general classification of jet fighters in service from approximately 1980 to the present and represent design concepts of the 1970.
    Congrats on your newly-found mastery of 50 year old concepts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 2:20 PM
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    As I said, Iran's manned aircraft program is actually one of the least invested and developed parts of Iran's military industrial programs, where the majority of funding goes to ballistic and cruise missiles and drones. Areas which even Iran's enemies, however reluctantly, admit Iran is among the top powers in the world. In fact, areas which Iran has developed and invested in to serve in lieu of an air force, as they can accomplish what manned aircraft can do.

    All that said, given the strict export controls, sanctions and everything against Iran, what Iran has done even in this area is impressive. Even those who like to pretend that Iran will ultimately not succeed without sanctions and such being lifted against it, and do pepper their reports with propaganda as well, admit as much.
     
  20. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea of any of this is true or not.
     
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I have an idea. I follow whatever relates to Iran, including its military, very closely. And not just from one or a few sources. But from different angles and spin. All the things I have say here, ultimately I can back up from those who are recognized as 'experts' in the US as well.
     
  22. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You are certainly no 'military expert', so no, you don't.
    You absorb and regurgitate propaganda.
     
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