Hypothetical war with Iran

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by HurricaneDitka, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think that is necessary for now, but I might do what you suggest at some point.

    In the meantime, these are pictures that were being posted by some fellow in Iran (the son of an ex-Iranian cop and current 'parkour athlete') under the heading "Sunset in Iran" before he was reportedly arrested.

    I am sure these wouldn't qualify as 'vulgar' by western standards, but I think its best for Iranians to keep some things private. No one would bother them if they did so, but in a society where there are still many people who are traditional and might find these pictures offensive, sharing these kind of photos in a public forum isn't going to be wise.

    Regardless, since "Google Earth" doesn't have the resolution you need, these photos might show you Tehran as well.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    https://observers.france24.com/en/20200520-iran-parkour-star-arrested-racy-kiss-photos

    Iranian parkour star arrested for racy kiss photos

    p.s.
    Here are the videos on some of his daring stunts, but also some other moments with his female companion(s) and such.


     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,893
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course, to be fair the Konarak was only sent to Iran because it was an unarmed support vessel, and they promised the Netherlands it would never be armed with offensive weapons.

    Then 2 years ago they added launchers for the Nasr anti-ship missile, and the appropriate equipment to launch sea mines.

    Which only goes to show how far their word can be trusted.

    But this is in no way a "battleship", it's just a supply boat they put mines and a few missiles on. Even a WWII era fighter would not have much problem taking out most of the Iranian Navy. And I just laugh when people demand I treat glorified speed boats with a few missiles on them with anything other than derision.
     
  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,893
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, I have no doubt they could disrupt traffic. They did it before after all, and it really means nothing.

    Oh, and what was the results the last time they tried that little game? I want to say it was 2 oil rigs destroyed and 5 ships sunk. That was after a US warship hit an Iranian mine. So the result was basically US 7, Iran 0.

    But please continue, I love the juvenile posturing. And I have absolutely no doubt if they started to do that like laying mines at the mouth of the Suez, it will quickly become a multi-national dogpile on Iran, probably with the UN signing off on whatever the International Coalition wanted to do in response.

    You foolishly brag about the power, but completely fail to see the consequences. It takes little power to act like an insane thug, and the more a nation postures and brags, the less seriously most nations take it.
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The last time you refer to was in 1987. You might like to imagine things have stuck in time, but they haven't. And while it seems you have not learned much from that engagement, Iran definitely learned quite a bit. And what it learned is that it won't be sending big naval warships to challenge better equipped US forces. It will rely on a different type of warfare against the US, focusing on different types of armaments and vessels it didn't have in nearly the same numbers nor with anything like the same capabilities at that time.
    p.s.
    In terms of the actual losses suffered by Iran from that engagement: the US sunk 2 warships, one a frigate (the old Sahand) and another a missile boat (the Joshan). The rest is hype and propaganda, trying to emblemish things and overlooking the fact that the US lost a helicopter during the engagement.

    My posts quote and cite 'juveniles' and not so 'juvenile' voices which are nonetheless regarded as America's top military experts.
    Iran wouldn't launch missiles or mine the Suez canal (or many other such places) unless it was already involved in an all out fight with the US. And if it is already involved in such a fight, UN resolutions authorizing use of force aren't going to be on top of Iran's mind!
    The thug and bully is the US. Otherwise, in none of my posts, have I suggested that the consequences of war would be anything that would be desirable for Iran. But for Iran, if there is a war, it would be a war of necessity. For the US, the war would be a 'war of choice' -- a choice the US will not make unless it imagines it has bullied Iran to lay down and just take what the US wants to dish out. That is why, ultimately, the no-war/no-peace situation that prevails between the two sides is often likened to a game of chicken.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am not worried about how you treat anything. You don't count to me.

    In the meantime, here is a sample of the major warships Iran has built over the past decade.

    This one was named after the frigate the US sunk in the operation you are stuck with from the 1980s.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...de-destroyer-sahand-joins-persian-gulf-fleet/
    Iran: Most advanced homemade destroyer, Sahand, joins Persian Gulf fleet
    [​IMG]

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/02/18/iran-unveils-new-conqueror-submarine/
    Iran unveils new ‘Conqueror’ submarine
    [​IMG]

    You can read analysis of this submarine from even sites known to be involved in trying to question Iran's military advances, such as this one:
    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/fateh.htm
    or this one, which does an exhaustive analysis of its capabilities, features and armaments:
    http://www.hisutton.com/Fateh-Class_Submarine.html
    The grudging admission! Very hard one I guess.

    And there will be even more impressive ones to join Iran's fleet.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutt...arines-and-a-6000-ton-destroyer/#612361c57e9f
    Iranian Navy Building New Submarines And A 6,000-Ton Destroyer
    [​IMG]
    This is the warship that Iran is planning to unveil that I like the most:
    [​IMG]
    https://navalnews.net/the-new-details-of-iranian-trimaran-frigate-safineh/

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,893
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And let's see. In the last 2 years, Iran has threatened to attack the UAE, Israel, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, "Europe", Bahrain, and Jordan.

    Yet, you somehow even attempt to claim the US is the "bully"?

    Yea, the leadership is about as innocent in threatening other nations as Hitler was innocent.

    But that's OK. Iran did not learn after the Tanker War, and if they try those games again they will be smote again.

    And you will still be screaming "But the Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you!" And after half Iranian military is a smoking crater, yelling out "OK, we'll call it a draw!"

    Nobody other than you really considers the possible US-Iranian conflict a "game of chicken". In reality, it is more like a drunk 150 pound 5'6" guy who is trying to pick a fight with a world class MMA fighter. And I know how that goes, after reading the police reports of a fight my son was in about a decade ago. Guy in a bar wanted to fight him, my son got tired and started to leave the bar when the guy attacked him from behind. Big mistake, my son took 2nd in the US Tae-Kwon-Do Nationals. He walked away with a headache, the guy was in the hospital for 3 days with multiple broken bones.

    I find it funny that you do not even comprehend how badly outclassed Iran is against the US. No more than nukes, missiles are not some magic wand you wave around and yell "Expellarimus" and suddenly they are defenseless against you.
     
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,893
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ohh, Iran now has a grand total of 6 Destroyers! And added 2 pocket submarines!.

    Color me impressed. The US outnumbers that in Nimitz class carriers by themselves 10-6. 22 Ticonderoga class Cruisers. And 67 Burke class Destroyers.

    Yet, you are impressed with 6 Destroyers. Which will somehow destroy the US, because... magic? Faith? Iranian superiority?

    Iran is like the North Korea of West Asia. A yapping dog that nobody takes seriously. Full of bluster and bark, who does not realize the rest of the world sees as little more than a pathetic joke.

    wE wiLL WiN CaUz wE gOtz MiSSilEs!

    [​IMG]
     
    Farnsworth likes this.
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Really? It is easy to type unsupported, opinionated, nonsense. But the facts on what I have said, on this point, and more, are simply not on your side.
    From the foreign secretary of America's closest ally and others:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/04/jeremy-hunt-us-iran-qassem-suleimani
    Hunt: US confrontation with Iran is 'dangerous game of chicken'
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/game-of-chicken-with-iran-is-a-high-stakes-gamble-ht5hxz03j
    Game of chicken with Iran is a high‑stakes gamble
    And from two different sides of (what is really much the same) political isle in the US:
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...e-playing-the-worlds-scariest-game-of-chicken
    Trump and Iran Are Playing the World’s Scariest Game of Chicken
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...es-game-of-chicken-could-blow-up-nuclear-deal
    'Moment of truth': Trump and Iran's high-stakes game of chicken could blow up nuclear deal
    ....
    and many more articles I could site, but here is one from what is happening the latest round of this game of chicken:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...35e048-99e7-11ea-ad79-eef7cd734641_story.html
    As tankers head toward the Caribbean, growing Iran-Venezuela ties draw U.S. concern


    Incidentally, while I don't agree that Iran selling oil to Venezuela is part of any 'game of chicken', I do agree that Iran telling the US: I dare you to try to interfere, is. In any case, the first Iranian oil tanker has arrived in Venezuelan waters.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Instead of beating your chest, ask and I will let you know the correct facts and figures.

    Iran has a fleet of around 34 'pocket submarines' (as you call them). The Fateh submarine Iran build a few years ago is not one of them. Those pocket submarines along with the Ghadir class submarines aren't the same as the Fateh class, which is much larger. The Fateh submarine is the largest submarine Iran has built, but its first semi-heavy submarine was actually launched more than a decade ago (the Nahang). And much heavier submarines will be showcased by Iran pretty soon.
    [​IMG]
    As for its 'destroyers', when Iran sees how even the US aircraft carriers are these days sitting ducks, it is obvious Iran is not going to invest too much on large surface vessels. That is not where you will find Iran's naval punch. If you need me to tell you where you will find it, ask.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,893
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reading comprehension fail.

    Where exactly did I say Iran "had only 2 pocket submarines"? Go back and read what I said and what you posted yet again. Wow, amazing! I never actually said that, did I? No, I quite clearly said they "added 2 pocket submarines", not that they "had 2 pocket submarines". But to be honest, I consider most submarines in the modern era as largely bad against surface ships. Of any nation, not just Iran. Modern ASW tactics give them the lifespan of an ice cube in the Kuwaiti sun, I do not care what nation has them. An Iranian sub going after the US ships would survive about as long as a US sub going after Iranian ships.

    Oh, the missile boats are great (SSBN), but as a form of strategic threat to civilians. And the attack subs are great against civilian ships and the like. But against a navy of almost anywhere (including Iran, US, Russia, China, etc), not so much. The US realized that decades ago, that is why they either operate solo trying to track other subs or surface groups, or working as an advance scout ahead of our surface fleets. The idea of submarines going out and sinking major surface groups pretty much died after WWII, due to more advanced ASW tactics.

    ASW by helicopters and aircraft, dipping sonarbuoys and MAD, dropping hundreds of passive sonobuoys everywhere around a group, and where subs are suspected to operate. Not to mention the SONAR on the ships themselves.

    Something Argentina learned the hard way, when their flagship left with only 2 Destroyer escorts, all with outdated and inadequate ASW capabilities in 1982. 2 of the ships were hit by torpedoes, the General Belgrano was sunk, one of the Destroyers suffered hull cracks from the impact of a dud. None of the ships had helicopter or aircraft ASW support, and an electronics suite that dated to the 1960's. In fact, they were still mostly relying upon surface RADAR to detect the periscope. I do not even think Iran is stupid enough to use antiquated ASW tactics like that.

    No, the intent today is not to sink those surface groups with the subs, just to track them. They then pull back and surface to antenna depth and call in the fighters to actually do that job. They scout the enemy, they do not attack them. Of course, they then have to di-di-mao the hell away because the enemy ASW forces would have picked up that signal and are going after it with everything they got. From Destroyers dropping trashcans to ASROC missiles and torpedoes falling from the sky.

    Especially since their torpedoes only have a range of around 30 miles. Why on earth would you want to get that damned close to a surface warfare ship, when you can instead strike it with a missile from over 100 miles away? That makes about as much sense as a soldier throwing away his rifle so he can box with his opponent hand to hand.

    Yea, yet another glorious fail there bubba. And the fail continues.

    Oh, and to just pound in the fail a little more. I took a quick look at the Iranian Destroyers and their ASW capability. No depth charges, no ASROC (anti-submarine rocket) capability, just their torpedoes and helicopters. Where as all the US Destroyers and Cruisers use the RUM-139 ASROC. So yea, even if they detect a US sub, they have a lot less available to sink it with.
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your fails, not mine. I was informing you of the number of smaller subs Iran has, while letting you know that the Fateh submarine I had shown to you isn't one of them. The Fateh submarine is a semi-heavy full sized submarine.

    Another fail: US surface ships, never mind Iran's, are what are sitting ducks. They are the ones that can be taken out very easily by modern anti-ship missiles of the kind Iran has in large numbers. Both cruise and ballistic anti-ship missiles.

    As for Iran's submarines, the smaller ones are idea for the shallow waters of the Persian Gulf to perform their functions. Here is a little on two of the kind of armaments they carry. One of them, their HOOT torpedoes, are the fastest of their kind. The other are cruise missiles which can be launched from them in a very unique way. In a way that still allows them to keep their location hidden, as the cruise missile travels through a capsule and fired from the capsule not the sub.

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...4258/iran-torpedo-missile-combination-jask-2/



    As for the HOOT torpedo:

    Read on the HOOT torpedo -- I don't think there are any defenses against it.
     
  12. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I posted the firing of the HOOT from a speedboat, but even Iran's smaller subs also carry these torpedoes. In fact, the cruise missile fired by Iran from a submarine was launched from a Ghadir submarine, using the unique system I alluded to: a torpedo like capsule first taking the cruise missile away from the mini submarine, which will be hiding somewhere in the shallow waters of the Persian Gulf undetected, while the firing of the missile (which can be picked up and otherwise potentially help locate a submarine) is done away from the submarine from the released capsule.

    Here is an updated version of Iran's HOOT torpedo (Vali Fajr torpedo) being fired from a Ghadir submarine:
     
  13. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    31,289
    Likes Received:
    11,561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why was he arrested for the kiss?
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I posted the story and pics for another reason. They show you the Chitgar lake area of Tehran, which is actually strictly middle class. You can get a good glimpse of that area through the videos. In fact, I am still upset at my wife for not letting me buy an apartment in that area (which has seen a huge rise in real estate prices, outstripping the rise in real estate prices even in $ elsewhere) a couple years ago, pushing me to buy a villa in Turkey instead. My investment in the villa in Turkey has seen a good chunk of the 150,000 Euro I paid for the property in cash dwindle in value, while the same investment in an apartment in that area would have seen my investment increase substantially. And since I am not rich by any means, that was a big loss for me.

    As for why he was arrested, the kiss along with the pose and the racy nature of the pictures together do establish a strong case under Iran's laws prohibiting vulgar and indecent images from being posted in a public forum. He will likely get a 'slap on the wrist' since there doesn't appear to be any aggravating circumstances and this is his first offense apparently. In fact, the slap on the wrist (a fine and a few days in jail) might have been calculated by this guy to be worth the exposure and media coverage, which will likely increase its notoriety and viewership of his stunts. Which was probably his motivation for posting these pics.
     
  15. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    31,289
    Likes Received:
    11,561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Arrested for a picture of a kiss to his partner?

    What kind of country is that?
     
    Mushroom likes this.
  16. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He probably has more than one partner based on the videos I posted, but as for what kind of country? A country that lives by its own rules, not someone else's. I am not suggesting you apply Iran's rules in your country and while I do want some of Iran's rules changed, I don't want Iran to blindly copy your rules either.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020 at 1:24 PM
  17. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    31,289
    Likes Received:
    11,561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But why exactly was he arrested for the kiss? What's the law that forbids that? I'm just curious
     
    Mushroom likes this.
  18. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You aren't curious and have no interest in learning. You just want to play your games. But I will humor you:

    A kiss alone (without anything more) would not result in an arrest usually, not because kissing an unrelated person and showing it in a public forum couldn't constitute a violation of the law, but because you could easily prevent the application of that law by saying that you had entered into a 'temporary marriage' with the person you had kissed. (Temporary marriages don't need to be registered and allow you to have intimate relations with your partner). But the combination of the kiss (and the nature of it) and the photos being revealing will not be something you can explain away even if you say the person is your fiance or 'temporary wife'.
     
  19. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    31,289
    Likes Received:
    11,561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's a lot of government control over a person. Who would care if a person is seen kissing someone else? lol.

    Iranians sure are brainwashed. But if that's what you enjoy- all the power to you.
     
    Mushroom likes this.
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To test your understanding of what worries the US in just a naval war with Iran, let me post different pictures and options and you tell me which ones show the forces the US would be most worried about in a naval war against Iran?

    A) Surface warships of the Regular Iranian Navy
    [​IMG]
    Iran's regular navy during naval exercises in the Persian Gulf.
    [​IMG]
    Iran's latest, domestically produced, 'stealth' frigate, the new Sahand.

    B) Iranian submarines:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Iran's latest, domestically produced, submarine, the Fateh ("Conqueror")

    [​IMG]
    A latest group of Qadir class mini-submarines produced in Iran for the Iranian navy
    [​IMG]
    One of Iran's Russian made, domestically re-hauled Kilo-class submarines

    C) Iranian Revolutionary Guards Speedboats and Drones
    [​IMG]
    Iranian speedboats during naval drills
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    D) Iranian anti-ship cruise and ballistic missiles and torpedoes
    [​IMG]

    NOOR anti-ships cruise missile fired during naval exercise
    [​IMG]
    One of Iran's anti-ship ballistic missiles, the Khalij Fars below
    [​IMG]
    You can see the Khalij Fars (as well as other Iranian ballistic missiles, such as Hormuz and Fateh Mobin) hitting their naval targets during live drills in videos which are available on youtube, but here is the image that you would see:
    [​IMG]
    Iranian supercavitation torpedoes, the fastest torpedoes deployed by any navy
    [​IMG]
    These torpedoes, along with Iranian anti-ship cruise missiles, are carried by a host of platforms, including Iranian speedboats and helicopters.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So what is the right answer? A, B, C, D?
    Here is a hint: the answer is NOT (A). And another hint:
    [​IMG]
     
  21. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    31,289
    Likes Received:
    11,561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't see a fleet of aircraft carriers or Nuclear Bombs in these pictures of "Iranian power". lol

    Strategy is important. Never bring a knife to a gun fight.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020 at 4:36 PM
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Iran doesn't need 'aircraft carriers' (which are a liability even for America in a war with Iran, much less for Iran) to enable it to fight the US effectively. But your point about 'nuclear bombs' is well taken. Unless Iran finds the courage to either accept to become another American vassal state in the region, and stand aside while the Project for a New American [sic] Century runs its course, or alternatively the courage to develop nuclear bombs to deter those who want to establish over the country, there is a glaring hole in Iran's strategy that nothing else can cover.
     
  23. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    23,479
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Trophy Points:
    113
    iran is on the axis of evil and will be easy to defeat by the US

    first the US defeated iraq, then it will defeat iran, and finally north korea will be defeated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil
     
  24. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    43
    lol people still arguing with this Iranian kid?

    We could hire a few Ozzies on jet skis and take out the Iranian Navy. The problem is when you pander to and appease these kinds of feral animals, they will only escalate their silly games and violence; they only see weakness when one tries diplomacy and other civilized tactics to resolve issues. You can toss a steak at a filthy rat, but as soon as the steak is gone it will be nibbling at your ankles again.
     
  25. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/iran-warns-u-watch-boats-074846712.html
    Iran Warns U.S. on Naval Activity in the Gulf
     

Share This Page