I don't need religion to be a good person.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don't ever consider myself religious, far from it. It's not a matter of what we feel we have accomplished in any sort of way. The difference is what we aspire to.
     
  2. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    OR... morality is OBJECTIVE, & irreligious people just like to pretend otherwise. Since we are dealing with BELIEFS & OPINIONS about the nature of the universe, these are both 'religious' opinions. You have no hard evidence for your beliefs in amorality, it is just your subjective opinion, so the pretense can go both ways.

    Hmm... seems to me that arrogance & hypocrisy is not a unique trait of 'religious!' people, whoever they are. I find that atheists are equally arrogant, dogmatic, pretentious, & hypocritical. IOW, we are all human, & we are plagued with the same foibles as the rest of humanity.

    I see a phony caricature from many atheists, & especially those from the progressive left, who have been indoctrinated into that worldview:

    'Religious!' people are all hypocrites, holier-than-thou, want a theocracy, hate science, hate black people, are intolerant, want to ban books, & are secretly nazis.

    This is a pretty common theme, in any Christian Bash setting. I see it in this forum All.The.Time. But it is just a propaganda meme.. like the real nazis who tried to dehumanize the jews, so they could kill them. And since Christians have a long history of being killed for being Christians, & since that was predicted by our Founder, we tend to take these things seriously.

    If you really read history.. not just the revisionist crap from the left, you can see the influence.. POSITIVE influence that christianity has had on the world. Western Civilization, & all the trimmings has at its root, the basis of Christian Ideology, & which has shaped it in every way. Of course, the revisionists are constantly distorting actual history, to project something that fits within their phony narratives better, hence the current Christian Bash.

    Science? Human Equality? Reason? Abolitionism? Citizen govt? Pick your positives for humanity in western civilization, & you will find christian principles & influences at their root. From the reformation to the enlightenment, the age of reason, & the scientific revolution, it has been christians primarily, leading the way, & providing the foundation for the rest of the culture.

    So the absurd & ridiculous phony narrative that christians are all knowledge hating bigots, is just that: A phony propaganda meme. There is no basis in reality.

    And for every scoundrel that claims 'Christian!' as his principle, i can find dozens of others who claim something else. I find it very ironic, that the demographic that the left hates the most.. middle class white men.. are the majority of atheists. So while christiantiy has true diversity, & appeals beyond race, culture, or any specific demographic, it seems that atheism is mostly a privileged white male phenomena. And since they are the ones the most militant & vocal in the proselytizing for their beliefs, it also seems that they can only attract others like them. I also find it very interesting that it is mostly those affluent white males, who are generally products of the advanced academic system, & who continue to indoctrinate themselves with PBS & other propaganda outlets for the marxist/darwinist worldview, who are the least tolerant of other beliefs. They tend to be against the principles that America was founded upon:
    1. Human equality.
    2. Freedom of expression.
    3. Freedom of conscience.
    4. Natural Law.
    5. Morality.
    6. Any 'religious' expressions.
    Any & all of the abridgements of our rights, in the last few decades, has been the direct result, influence, & agenda of the atheistic/naturalistic left, as they seek to impose their worldview on everyone else, while demonizing the majority opposition: Christianity. That is why they see radical Islam as an ally.. anything that will destroy, demean, or take christianity down a notch, in the public eye, is a positive for their agenda.

    Anyway, i got too long.. again. It is somewhat of a burr under my saddle.. this phony narrative about 'christianity!' that the left is constantly pitching, so i can go on & on.. I should probably start a thread dedicated to this concept.. the roots of the virtues of western civilization being in christianity. And, since the marxist/darwinist left hates western civilization with such a passion, the correlation should be clear.
     
  3. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member

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    Empathy is there to foster family/clan/community bonding, mitigation of aggression, encouraging care and understanding which are NECESSARY social characteristic. It is as much a survival trait as flight/fight.

    Empathy, like love and every other emotion are physical in the sense that one can observe physical electrical activities in the brain related to them.

    As to making value judgements on sociopaths, its pretty damn easy given their behaviors and attitudes.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I agree. But heaven help those tribes who were not monguls, right? What some religions did, or tried to do, was to extend what empathy produces within a clan, outside the clan. Surely this is one value of religion? Which served as a conduit for morality, outside a tribe, a clan. The golden rule was extended outside of ones tribe. Atheism did not do this.
     
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  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member

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    The golden rule had nothing to do with a specific religion. It can be found in virtually every society in history.

    Being an agnostic atheist does not mean I dont' comprehend the benefits that organized religion has had on human societies throughout history. It has been a very necessary and successful social control. It was particularly effective in societies with little or no justice system, in fighting wars for the economic benefit of the ruling classes, promoting xenophobia/protectionism/exclusion, not to mention puttin' the fear o' god's judgement upon death into the minds of men. Then there are the benefits that individuals derive from their faith and its "revealed" knowledge.


    And you are correct atheism doesn't do any of that.
     
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  6. tealwings

    tealwings Well-Known Member

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    Some individuals easily extend empathy regardless of their beliefs or non beliefs. However many only go outside their "clan" for reasons that benefit them self or their "members". Part of it is survival, part of it is because people are fearful.
    Sociopaths are extreme, delusional (religious or not) and arent included in the above.
     
  7. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member

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    In Christianity, God sets the standard which won't change. Our morality however changes along time. Today, a good person won't have a slave. However 300 years ago, a good man can have a slave. The same happens when nudity and homosexuality is measured against time. In 30s, a man watch nudity photos may not be considered good.

    In Christianity, one of the main reasons (we believe) that Christians cannot be good because Christians draw the focus of Satan and his angels. We are thus put to tests as Satan specially want us to sin. Satan doesn't have the same interest in those who are already kept captive. That's the theory.

    How good you are may depend on what environment you are put in. If you are left hungry all the times, you may choose to steal, rob or even kill. In another words, how good you can be may depend on what tests you are put into.

    That said. The Bible said that no one is good. Under the consent that you know that children are dying of hunger in Africa while you use your money to surf the net. It means that you'd rather use your money to surf the net while watching them die. How good are you? You can ....... give yourself some lame excuse for you to remain confident that you are good, while ....... Christians choose to repent all our sins we can be aware or unaware of. Now who is good?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  8. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    That is certainly true.

    But whatever gave you the idea that good people are to be rewarded with heaven, whereas bad people shall be sent to the other place?

    Mere goodness (even true, serious goodness) is not even close to what the New Testament teaches as being the means of securing the former, while avoiding the latter.
     
  9. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Well, who says there is anything to be said about the New Testament or the Old Testament when it comes down to not needing religion?
    Same applies to an afterlife, what afterlife? I'm talking about the guaranteed life of life that can be wasted if you allow a religion to dictate to you what you should do in the years you have on this Earth. Doctrine written by men to tie the masses up in bondage and submission - not for this guy. If you don't take The Holy Bible as evidence of Time Travel... Then we can't really communicate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  10. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Well, I was merely responding to your initial assertion, viz.: "I don't need religion to be a good person."

    I fully agree with that.

    Many good people are irreligious.

    Who ever claimed otherwise?
     
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    This isn't about them, this is about this thought of mine.
    Why does not needing a religion to be good have so many questions?
    Can't it just be?
     
  12. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    I really am not aware of anyone who claims that "a religion" is needed in order to be "good."

    Perhaps there is such a person--somewhere.

    But looking for such a person would be roughly tantamount to, say, unicorn hunting.
     
  13. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member

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    Because those of faith cannot fathom "goodness" without the dogmatic baggage that keeps them as believers in line?
     
  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I'm a religious person, and I agree with you. That said, there are people who do need some assistance to be a good person. Regardless, I like being Catholic, and will continue to do so, despite the constant attacks by the culture.
     
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is an old saying, you don't need to teach a child how to be bad. Just sayin.
     
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  16. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    There are some people that need religion to keep on the straight and narrow.
     
  17. vanityofvanitys

    vanityofvanitys Well-Known Member

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    I enjoyed your post, much I agree with. But none of what you said should deter you from being a Christian yourself from what I can figure.

    >> “…how good you can be may depend on what tests you are put into.”

    Totally accurate. None of us dare say what another man deserves in God’s hand, it is pure folly to think otherwise. Also I agree most of us Americans think too highly of our kindness and generosity. By and large, we don’t do nearly enough to help the most needy and oppressed in this world. It may come as a shock to us how many years or centuries we have to endure purgatory because of our blindness and self-centeredness.

    >> “In Christianity, one of the main reasons (we believe) that Christians cannot be good because Christians draw the focus of Satan and his angels. We are thus put to tests as Satan specially want us to sin. Satan doesn't have the same interest in those who are already kept captive. That's the theory.”

    Very interesting with some truth to it. But it does not explain the matter well enough, imo. It’s true demons spend more time trying to entice or trick the more devout believers, especially the clergy, because their downfall yields greater damage in many ways. But what of those the devil cares little of because they are so all about the world with no care for God or spiritual thoughts? I would not say they are held captive, but one could surely be in big trouble if they ignored a bevy of various callings throughout their lives. They are not without guilt like some poor Hindu mother may be. So purgatory is a wide net but some definitely miss and fall into the pit. Nor do I think too many are not aware of where they may stand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  18. tealwings

    tealwings Well-Known Member

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    ...because its a discussion board silly. lol. If you dont need it, or care about it...why is it even in your thought process.
    True spirituality will change you though...and its not a walk in the park. Its so strange to me that people of faith are seen as the weak ones..when nothing could be further from the truth.
    Good people, bad people is sooooo secular. :grin:
     
  19. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    The internet's free to tell me what they think of my school of thought and I'm free to tell them why I think it's not something to be understood if you don't have morals without God.
     
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  20. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You've made no assertions that make sense. The fact that you believe that an unproved superbeing that tortures billions for eternity is objectively good leaves you with no credibility in this discussion to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017

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