I don't need religion to be a good person.

Agreed.

I was merely pointing out that it is impossible to "work" one's way to heaven. (Theoretically, I suppose that it would be possible--if one were to keep the Law of Moses perfectly, for one's entire lifetime--but as a practical matter, that is a non-starter.)

 

In a theological sense, grace means the entirely undeserved kindness of God toward humankind.

 

..let him enjoy his strawman.. what fun is truth or reality?

 

Blaming? I can't blame an entity that I doubt even exists! I was just pointing out how silly that is, to think that you, a mere speck in the universe, would be so meaningful as an individual to such an entity.

 

You obviously think being 'non-religious' means being non-hypocritical and more 'honest' or something. Non-believers are actually worse and more petty; the perception that religious people seem to think they're 'special' is some guilt or uncertainty in you, not anything to do with them. They make you paranoid for some reason. they don't bother me in the least, and don't have that effect on me. You're just neurotic.

 

They aren't "more honest" or "more" anything. Paranoid? What in the hell are you babbling about? This is a discussion about religion, bozo.

 

Anything goes? Such as? This is a lie obviously.

 

I guess some people just need a crutch in life, or something to "worship" and guide them, encourage them not to do bad things. Some of us don't need these things to live our lives as good people and to be helpful and kind to others.

 

And yet white christians are now 43 percent of the population and dropping fast, talk about culling

 

Of course it is not a lie and you know it! People who have standards, discuss virtue and do not shy away from it are considered by the godless, "judgmental and intolerant". They like to put them in a box and call them "religious".They have a safe zone where anything goes. It is quite obvious. Their statement of faith is, I do not confess my own shortcomings and do not expect you to confess yours. We appear neutral in all matters concerning virtue." That is why they have "safe zones" at our Universities. At the same time they want to paint their position as "morally superior" and attack free speech as a way of defending it. This is going on all around us now. It is evident and you say I lie. Oh for shame.

 

that is one of their ignorant talking points not born out by any facts

they lie for their jesus

Atheists Are 0.07% of the Federal Prison Population, Threatening Fact for Christian Fundamentalists
It's a big disruption to the Christian right argument that you need a belief in God to live morally.
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-a...americas-scientists-and-07-percent-its-prison



http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...make-up-0-1-of-the-federal-prison-population/

 

Perhaps in America if your polling is honest...I don't know, but worldwide Christianity is exploding and not limited to race. We are all Brothers and Sisters.

Also what is viewed as a decline in Christianity in America is the result of "Dead Churches" where the Gospel of Christ is not preached and a type of Unitarianism takes over. I have seen many of those Churches. They are decaying rapidly and their congregational age averages about 50 years old. It is a good thing.

 

Mean religious affiliation of inmates in U.S. prisons, as reported by prison chaplains in 2011


https://www.statista.com/statistics/234653/religious-affiliation-of-us-prisoners/

 

europe no, amerrica no, only places that have superstitious beliefs to begin with

 

And ignore the discussion of virtue in an effort not to offend others. I know, your defense is most likely, what is virtue? The problem is, you are afraid to define it.

 

Most people do need something to crutch along in order to find purpose.

A few apparently do not.

 

You see, I see you as being superstitious in believing we are here as a result of chance. What's more, I see it as cowardly in being afraid that there is a power greater than yourself that just might hold you accountable. No reason to get uptight.....I'm just being frank with you.

 

Your notions of good and evil are largely precast by religious institutions whether you want to officially sit in their pews or not.

 

Not sure you are right.

 

Do you really believe your condescending statement above is a good thing? Do you believe the pride you have in saying you don't need a crutch is a good thing? I bet if you were really introspective and looked at your life you would find a lot of things that are not "good things". I'm not being critical of you. I'm in the same boat. I profess I am in that boat. Because I look for something outside of the boat I'm in you imply I need a crutch? Don't tell me you don't have a need for worship. I don't know you at all, but I see people worshiping all over outside of Church. I see them at concerts with their hands held high moving back and forth. I see them at sporting events doing much the same. I see them listening intently to their psychiatrists. I see them at car dealerships and model homes ogling what might be theirs. I see them at protest events leading chants. It's just a different type of worship that never leads to being grateful for what we have been given.

 

I would call that a "seared consious".

 

So now Christians are "ignorant" and "liars".. OK you win. That is how the godless always tout their moral superiority. Apart from God our Creator, there is no morality.

 

How is it that the 'New! Improved!' atheists suddenly have 'morals, hope, & purpose'? They didn't use to, nor did they try to compete with theists in that realm. They used to embrace their despair, & wallow in insignificance, meaninglessness, & absurdity. But now, they try to pretend that, 'We have morals, too! We have hope! Our lives have significance & meaning!'

Somehow, the memo did not come through, that a naturalistic view of the universe precludes any morality, hope or purpose.. it is all a human construct, with no absolute definition.

It is a logical conclusion, that existentialists have had for centuries. It is a delusion to believe you have some kind of basis for 'hope, morality, & purpose!' when you believe in nothing.

 

usfan, please don't go on the path with Taxonomy.

You can no more prove your point than he can his.

 

thanks for the advice, but i will stick with science & reason. I will ignore the hecklers & bigots, though..