I no longer believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus/ Yeshua!

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, May 14, 2014.

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Do you believe Jesus/ Yeshua was born of a virgin?

  1. Yes... I am a Christian... ofcourse I do!

    4 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. No.... I am atheist/ agnostic/ skeptical.

    22 vote(s)
    73.3%
  3. Yes... I am a Muslim or other religion...but I believe in the Virgin Birth.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. No.... but I do believe Yeshua attained Messiah Consciousness.

    4 vote(s)
    13.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was a human. He was not divine. However, I do believe that god plants seeds of inspiration in people's minds. I believe that Jesus' moral philosophy was an example of such inspiration. As were the teachings of Gautama Buddha, and the concept of democracy.
     
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Im finding that The Bible makes a lot more sense from a metaphorical perspective. Whether or not Jesus was literally conceived by some sort of union of God and Mary doesnt really have much bearing on 'love they neighbor' and 'your sins are forgiven.'
    Adding in the Apocrypha (because I dont believe the Catholic Church was given authority by God to re-write The Bible) and 'pre-biblical' historical context (the Anunnaki of the Sumerian cuneform for example) I think its likely that the virgin birth of Jesus is metaphorically describing a genetic engineering process, or perhaps a metaphysical (as yet not understood) process involving the evolution of the multidimensional dynamics of our mind, being an interface between our biochemical processes in this realm and our spiritual processes in another.

    But this is somewhat of a transitional period for me, so I cant really get more precise with any degree of confidence yet...
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  3. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Don't you know that the Apocrypha was an original part of every Bible until 1881-1885 when two English guys decided to delete it? The Protestants obeyed but the Catholics didn't. An English committee wrote the first Bible as an unified book in 692 A.D.. It weighed 75 pounds. They made three copies. The Bible didn't exist before then.
     
  4. vanityofvanitys

    vanityofvanitys Well-Known Member

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    That is quite an author. I guess 12 apostles, a thousand saints, and countless unexplained miracles of the Church got it all wrong. Boy did God lead His creation down a false path for reasons unknown. And, Jesus. Just another fraud.
     
  5. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    Topic title- I no longer believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus/ Yeshua!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Aargh not another consp-theory!
    As if we haven't got enough of them being pulled out of hats already..:)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
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  6. J.Idallian

    J.Idallian Well-Known Member

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    Voted No/Skeptical.

    I do not believe in magic and miracles. While a virgin birth would, technically, be possible today, 2000 years ago the process wouldn't have existed. I -do- believe that books are written by people, and that people lie and twist in order to promote a version of "truth" that elevates their ideology. I've always been agnostic, as I believe it's impossible to either prove or disprove anything, so one has to take a position of "not knowing" if they don't believe one way or the other.
     
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  7. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    Think of them as a "Superscience" that we know nothing about..:)
     
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  8. J.Idallian

    J.Idallian Well-Known Member

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    Well there's something to be said for that. I did have a good friend of mine that likened it to 4 dimensional movement. I've always held the belief that if there's a god, the being is extremely scientific and methodical in nature, so that would line up.

    Regardless, that theory isn't enough for me to believe that spontaneous impregnation occurred.
     
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  9. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    If our "reality" is just an illusion or dream, God can easily manipulate it at will..:)
    In fact we could regard Jesus as a "Master of the Art of Dream Manipulation", bending 'reality' to produce what looked like miracles, and he said we could do it to..:)
     
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  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Something truly unusual about the Virgin Birth doctrine is that the Apostle Paul
    never once refers to it.......
    by the fifth century the Catholic Church had gotten to the place where they tended to choose certain types of literature for canonization.... and they tended to reject books like the Gospel of Thomas.... that is arguably better than that of Luke in a number of ways......

    I am of the belief that the Holy Spirit.....
    spoke to Mary.....
    a young woman who was unmarried......
    (the literal translation of the word translated Virgin in Isaiah in English.....)....
    to go and sleep with her husband Joseph.....

    There were several reasons for the Holy Spirit to do this......

    The Essenes had a long waiting time for people to be recognized as Prostylites to Judaism.....
    they had overly strict rules on the engagement process before marriage......

    by getting Mary to sleep with Joseph while engaged... G-d was showing
    the world... that G-d can have a relationship with people.....

    long before the Rabbis or priests or pastors.....
    will recognize those people as being converted.... by however means they define conversion.....

    Also... the Holy Spirit wanted Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and his twin brother born at a certain time.....


    Mar 2:28

    Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    Basically..... Messiah in H-s preexistent form was claiming lordship over marriage.... as well as the Sabbath.....
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  11. J.Idallian

    J.Idallian Well-Known Member

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    So your claim is that the biblical "virgin Mary" was a mistranslation for "unwed" ? I've always heard it referred to as a mistranslation for "young woman." That would give more creed to the legend then.
     
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I highly recommend the book written by this near death experiencer.......
    He was shown mind blowing things about the hidden teaching of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus during and after his NDE.....

    www.ThomasTwin.com/

    If you click on the link.... Preview the Book you can read part of this... but from page 107 to the end of the book is the mind blowing part........


    https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Thomas_Book.html?id=kbiGjKJl4D4C


    Here are five paragraphs from it:



    Did Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua teach the same things as Rabbi Nachman of Breslov?


    Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D. page 117,118, "The Thomas Book, Near Death and a Quest for Another Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus".......
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  13. J.Idallian

    J.Idallian Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I've heard of this. This is the many lives philosophy. Where one person lives simultaneously at multiple times as well as multiple places, in order to fully understand what the human condition means. Hard for us to conceptualize now, but with a greater understanding of the universe, who knows, maybe people as a whole will be more open to it.

    I do like the idea and find it fascinating.
     
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I began to study near death experience accounts in 1990.....
    I cannot rule out hardly anything that these amazing people have written.......

    I got myself kicked out of two churches in 1991 due to my fascination with NDE accounts.......

    The following explanation is impressive indeed.......

    But... resurrection.... and reincarnation... and a heaven / paradise..... are not
    mutually exclusive but combined.......
    Colton Burpo met John the Baptist in heaven.....
    Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D. met Elijah.....
    both Elijah as well as John the Baptist as individuals are in heaven......
    not merely a blob of energy that is both Elijah as well as John the Baptist.....


    http://allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or.... perhaps by the time of Luke many of the disciples made the claim......
    if Mary herself had made the claim.... the Apostle Paul would have know about it..... but he never mentions the Virgin Birth even once........ Luke wrote it up later than the writings of Paul....... or so I think at this time anyway..
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not disgusted...... because even a very flawed version of Christianity gives us more hope than the Atheism that I came out of first.
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually...... Isaiah stated that an unmarried young woman would become pregnant with the Messiah.... Why would G-d cause things to work out that way?

    For one thing.... to give an excuse to the Jews who believed the rumors about Mary getting pregnant too soon....... would somehow disqualify her son....... in spite of what Isaiah had written.

    I believe that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.... and told her to go sleep with her husband Joseph before all Essene marriage rituals had been completed....... The Essenes had gone too far with their authority over their members anyway.......
     

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