If all of the sea ice melted ...

Discussion in 'Science' started by bricklayer, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, that is the ice that would cause the oceans to rise. It would be similar to throwing a bunch of ice cubes into a glass of water.

    The ice that has no impact is that over the North Pole. That is already resting in the water, so the amount of water has already displaced by the volume of ice.

    That is why if you have a glass full of ice and water and the ice melts, the glass does not overflow.
     
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  2. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    I should have been more select in my wording. Right-wing politicians tend to be less interested in the environment, but just being a right-wing individual does not mean the same thing.

    And I also agree that environmentalism can be one of those causes that people wear on their sleeves.

    The point I was largely driving at is that the left tends to be the party that takes more action on environmental issues. But because the left is also associated with socialism, the two get mushed together. Being socialist or supporting socialistic policies does not in any way make you environmentally friendly. The two things are completely separate issues.

    Which is why I posed the thought that I did. If it was the right-wing politicians in this country who pushed for stronger environmental laws, nobody could accuse them of trying to push a secret socialist agenda. Because socialism has nothing to do with environmentalism. A government is not automatically better suited to choose the best environmental options, because a government is just people and people make biased decisions. I'm more in favor of ironclad laws regarding environmental policy that prohibit exceptions that go to those with the means to buy them. I'm in favor of strict littering laws, strict laws on dumping and pollution, without exceptions. Endangered species should be taken into consideration and weighed against what is beneficial for society. If it's purely a profit motivation, I don't care if a frog keeps a handful of people from getting rich. If it's something that people need or that benefits everybody, I'm more willing to choose people over a frog. The problem is that people are politically motivated and biased from both sides. Sometimes regulations do get out of hand, no argument there. But other times they are disregarded or done away with to the detriment of people and the environment in favor of a small group of people who will profit.

    I've lived in a rural area since I was 4 years old, and I'm 37 now. I've taken walks through the woods, along creeks, and seen enough trash in even the most out-of-the-way places to fill up a landfill. Not just disposable trash, but building supplies, old cars, old appliances, toxic chemicals, etc. You name it, I've seen it out there. Up until the mid 90s there was a superfund site 2 miles from the schools I attended. I can't speak towards the political motivations of all those people who've littered on a large or small scale, but I would imagine at least some of them have claimed to be in favor of the environment from time to time.

    On a personal level, being environmentally conscious is not based on your politics(it's probably more of the reverse). A person either is, or isn't. But on the political party level, it cannot be denied that left-wing political parties tend to be more pro-active on environmental policy than the right does. Right-wing politics tends to be more concerned with business and profit which is why the environment tends to lose in those situations because money is a hell of a motivator.
     
  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Are you even aware of who it was that created the EPA?
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Those of us in flyover country aren't against a war against climate change. We just don't want the government involved in it.
     
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yeah and look at what they're doing to it today.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Because in many ways it is out of control.

    Farmer digs a hole in their field so they can water their cows. They then get a fine for creating an unapproved waterway. They then go and fill it back in, and then get fined for destroying a waterway. Right now in California they are holding up the removal of debris and rebuilding in Paradise. Because there might be a frog in the area.

    Idiots, how many of those frogs were left after the fires tore through the area? And how is leaving the trash in the water good for them?

    I agree with the original EPA, and still like much of what they do. But a great many of their regulations are nonsensical, and their enforcement is often extrajudicial and outside of the scope of their intended powers.
     
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  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree that some regulations are ridiculous, as your anecdotal example demonstrates. OTOH, taking a hatchet and hacking away without a comprehensive plan, including a set of criteria for regulation removal or modification is a pretty damn stupid method of transformation. Its not like corporations can or will police themselves, especially if it impacts their bottom line.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    What matters is what the EPA is allowed to do TODAY.

    It wouldn't matter if Clyde Barrow created the EPA.
     
  9. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    More useless future speculations, it is silly since over 90% of Antarctica never gets above freezing. Here is a recent post about Temperature trends for coastal stations:

    From No Tricks Zone

    10 Of 10 Coastal Antarctic Stations Show Zero Warming Over Past Decades.

    Over the past few years, climate alarmists have increasingly been resorting to weather-ambulance chasing, which has necessitated the trotting of the globe in the search of weather anomalies to behold as proof of man-made climate change.

    But one place they have been avoiding like the plague is Antarctica as a number of studies have been showing the opposite of what what predicted earlier has been happening down at the South Pole, except for volcanic activity beneath parts of the Antarctic ice shelf.

    Analysis of Antarctic stations show cooling
    Today we look at 10 Antarctic station under operation in Antarctica, scattered along the Antarctic coastline and operated by various countries. These are not impacted by volcanic activity:

    [​IMG]
    LINK
    ===============================================================================
    All of them average BELOW freezing.....

    Meanwhile this gets ignored a lot:

    [​IMG]

    Comiso et al 2017
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  10. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    The Arctic region ice cover has stabilized since 2006, no more decline:

    [​IMG]
    LINK

    and,

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    and,

    [​IMG]

    The use of these two junk charts should be discouraged as they are invalid. Notice that the well known cooling from the 1940's to the 1970's in the first chart have been nearly erased, when it was once around .6C to about zero today. GISS is no good for temperature data as they have repeatedly changed it many times over the years.

    The Marcott chart has an add on that is dishonest and misleading since their RESOLUTION difference is big, this is science malpractice.
     
  12. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And If All The Oceans Froze, Ref.: Snowball Earth
    etc. etc. etc.


    Was there ever a life time when one didn't feel
    climate / weather changed on them?



    SUPPORT STATIC EARTH
    Stop Continental Drift.
    Cork the Volcanoes.
    :rant:
    send $ to Moi



     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
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  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only thing that reduces ice in East Antarctica is lack of snow. It is so cold that it won't melt even during the hottest part of the year so it only either evaporates or gets replaced with more snow. So the only way for East Antarctica (the majority of Antarctic ice) is if it doesn't snow enough.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  14. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your understanding of Antarctic sea ice is inadequate to make a useful evaluation.
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/antarctic-greenland-ice-melt-less-bad/
     
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  16. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have A Nice Day:)
     
  19. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some of you take conjecture as fact.
     
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  20. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you dismiss fact in favor of preconceived opinion.
     
  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for proving my point.
     
  22. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Did you read this in YOUR link?

    You have ignored post 184, that shows the long term INCREASE in sea ice cover
     
  23. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    The link is paywalled, but this from the article indicate another junkscience paper:

    bolding mine

    Modeling guesses that are unverifiable as they are untestable and far into the future.

    :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  24. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you mean the sea ice that does not exist according to you and which I replied to?
     
  25. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet...until we develop time travel it is all we have.
     

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