If Jesus died for my sins

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Jolly Penguin, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the question is: did he enjoyed his life? It's his life after all and not yours. You'll both end up as compost or ashes in the end. So why restrain yourself.

    As an aside, your historical viewpoint is wrong also. Royalties and government used religions as a mean to control the populace. It doesn't in anyway prove the existance of Gods, only that you can make the masses belive in anything when you use the might of the government to enforce it. Those who rebeled were branded heretic and faced death penalty and/or torture.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  2. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    no such thing, where'd you dig that garbage up?
     
  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    You divide in your thinking while I unite.

    We are all born tribal and thus religious. Even atheists realize that when they attain their level of enlightenment. Note the churches atheists are intelligently putting up.

    As to my hate of religions, like the mainstream that preach the opposite of the law of the land, they are G D traitors to their citizen's oath of allegiance.

    The literalist right wing belongs in the garbage. It is giving modern religions a bad name.

    Even the better ones like mine.

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were well versed on such things.

    The quickest is Wiki but they put a lot of garbage that the inquisitors put out to justify their murders. In our evolving religion, best to ask an active member.

    Any free thinker can help the religious out though.

    Regards
    DL
     
  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    'lack' is not an old way, thats 100% neo
     
  6. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    What is a "lack"

    Regards
    DL
     
  7. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    It's ironic how so many who mock, ridicule, hate and disbelieve in a perfect God, are right at the front of the mob hurling insults at someone for something as simple as a misspoken word, a slight, or perceived wrong, as if perfection were their God and they could bear no less in their fellow man. Then they turn right around, go back and mock the concept of a perfect God once again. One must surmise they think themselves to be God, and a jealous God at that. Problem is, they've already condemned perfection and imperfection, undermining their standing and essentially making hypocritical fools of themselves, with no room to be perfect or imperfect, void of mercy and judgment. But like they say, no one is perfect....except God. And from that comes our seasons, grace and the probationary nature of this life. He opens the doors of our prisons and bears all for our sakes. He does not come to our condemnation but rather to nudge us along in a better way, a newer and fresher way. We sense the mercy, his charity in our hearts, acknowledge our shortcomings, accept his forgiveness, and carry on hopefully a little wiser and contrite.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    sorry, its a contradiction in terms.
    https://iep.utm.edu/gnostic/
     
  9. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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  10. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    You don't have to be a jerk in every post.
     
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  11. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The existence of God and the value religion are 2 different questions. Religion is a social unifier - rules that even restrain the rich and powerful that atheism does not. A German anthropologist, openly atheist found ancient buried stone cities all over the world, including the oldest of all. He said he finally realized the answer to the question he could never answer.

    For all known history of humans - tens of thousands of years - they were wandering hunter-gatherers. They never advanced. Built no permanent structures. But all stone cities has complex social structure - centered around religion - always. Religion was the unifier, the universal set of rules, allowing people to gather together as a collective.

    This allowed specialization of tasks - organized - and that is vastly more efficient. Stone cities take vastly more time to build - but religion believes in eternity generally - while atheist believe death is the final end so why build anything permanent? The higher efficiency created leisure time, time to ponder, to mentally explore.

    So while humans did not advance for tens of thousands of years, with religion and the resulting unity that controlled all - even the lords and kings to a singular cohesion - has humans go from stone building to being on the moon in under 3,000 years. He accredits that to religion. He found no sophisticated complex societies that did not have religion at the center of the city and power.

    Atheists have mass murdered people for not subscribing to the government required ideology so that argument of yours is nothing. Hitler, Stalin and Mao didn't murder millions for religious reasons. I've noticed to most atheists, organized government becomes their secular religion and gods no different than organized religion as they chant "it's the law" as no different than a priest declaring "it's the law." I see no real difference between organized religion and organized government, other than organized religion more establishes enduring rules and social cohesion.

    Belief in metaphysical realities beyond human's extremely limited sensory perception and intellect is not the same as organized religion. You believe all sorts of things as an atheist you can't prove, and the fact is nearly your entire moral code comes out of religion, not atheism. Religion can be the only hope of otherwise hopeless people. The only source of feeling having any value whatsoever, that life had any value.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  12. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    Probably. What you can't know is whether it made him any happier. Most people know that drugs, infidelity and alcohol abuse have ruined many lives, to the regret of the family as well as the abuser. Fornication between two willing adults is risky in terms of STD's and unwanted pregnancy, but I didn't see Mick screw anyone nor do I know if it really made him any happier,if he did, than a celibate pope.
     
  13. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    I've already told you no intellect is required yet you accuse me of being smarter than 99% of people.
    That makes no sense at all.

    I tell you to stop thinking and know God....and you immediately refer to me as "vastly intellectually superior people like you"
    I don't know any more than you or anyone else....because there is nothing to know.
    There is only being.
    You don't need stone structures. They are only distractions. They were put there by folks like yourself
    who insisted that god must have some kind of form....so they thought one up.
    So now they have this fancy stone statue....and guess what? They're still messed up.
    So then they start thinking something else up.
    Stop thinking.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  14. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you claim religion is in human dna?

    Why should anyone comply with their oath? I'm not under any oath whatsoever other than promises to my wife. I'm not under any oath to any law. Why do I have any duty to you or anyone else? So what if I broke any duty that I can get away with breaking? Are you claiming that anything that isn't illegal is therefore moral behavior?
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  15. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you just made my point. You're advocacy is that we should just live in straw huts, live just for today and to hell with tomorrow. We all just die anyway.

    That's why atheism can not form complex societies, specifically complex city societies of permanence. Just wander. Get what you need today for today. Find some place to sleep tonight. And you can do that. Be a hobo, a street person.

    But I doubt many will agree with you that the USA would be a superior society if everyone was one of 330,000,000 living in the woods or caves they find homeless and each person had to find their own food and shelter.

    Again, you can't make your case because there has never been any enduring atheist society in known world history anywhere in the world in any era. If you are correct, there would be at least one example. Somewhere at some point in time.

    I don't mean to be insulting. I did not know you are a person living as and committed to die as a homeless person with an ideological opposition to permanent structures. There are a few people like that - sort of - people who live in the forests here and called "forest people" by choice. Sometimes social services has to pick up their sick, starving children who are never in school.

    I see advocacy of the most primitive society of the most primitive jungle law society of no buildings just too wacky to debate. Sounds like something a freshman in some philosophy class would argue thinking they are being creative. John Lennon's Imagine.

    You aren't posting from a computer made of wood and dirt.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  16. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do you call me an atheist? If I were an atheist, why would I point you toward God?
    People made the stone statues and monuments and religious figures you speak of....not God.

    All that stuff about living in the woods has really nothing to do with anything...
    it's just more needless thoughts in your head.
    Get rid of them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  17. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You must be young. Some young people will say they never want to be old. They all will change their opinion other than the few who commit suicide - and that isn't to avoid becoming old. A society of everyone who has no restraints? Your arguments are increasingly foolish and juvenile in my opinion. You are arguing for pure self irresponsibility.
    Do you then agree I have no obligation to provide anything to burned out old alcoholics sleeping under newspapers in the park? Let his freeze. Starve. It was his choice. Who I am to alter the path he selected for his future?
     
  18. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I
    I'm only the miror that reflects the content of this site. I came to realize a while ago what that forum is about.
     
  19. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol ok. And you accuse other of trolling...
     
  20. Warm Potato

    Warm Potato Active Member

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    So many atheists trolling instead of giving good answers
     
  21. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm an old farth, a free electron.

    I'm arguing for total chaos and the end of what you call society. I want to see it all burn down and I want to hear your screams of anguish while you watch your country and your citizen being ravaged. I want to see in your dying eyes the same look that you put on the faces of millions of innocents around the globe when you bombed them and raped their women and childs. And I'll be doing a happy dance while taking a long sip out of a flask.

    I even sent a letter to Santa about it... We can all dream...
     
  22. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trolling is making posts meant only to bait another poster into having an emotional reaction. I didn't do that.
     
  23. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course not...
     
  24. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    I accept your concession.
     
  25. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Goodbye
     

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