if shtf, 90+% of your shooting better be done with a silenced .22

If such is not the case, you will be screwing up too badly for any load or gun to save you. Avoidance of people/conflict/catagion will be the key to survival. Any loud shot is likely to draw your enemies to your location. It will also run off other game, which is wasteful of your time/calories spent trying to take game.

Mel Tappan, in his book SURVIVAL GUNS, devoted an entire page to deal with why survivalists are foolish to engage in full auto firearms,and several more pages as to why you should have a crossbow, .22 CB Caps, pellet rifle and the like, but not ONE word about silencers in the entire Book! Wth not?

 

However, I do not like the limitations of power, range and penetration seen with the .22lr, especially the subsonic standard weight loads. Such loads only offer about 90 ft lbs of "power". So having the .22lr conversion unit for the AR15 (in 223) is a great combination. I do not think of it as a 223 with a sideline part. I think of it as a .22lr that has a powerful, long range, body armor piercing option. Altho I do believe that the gun should be kept in 223 firing 'mode", until a good reason is presented for using the .22 unit. then switch to .22, do whatever it is, and immediately switch back to 223. if you need the rifle SWIFTLY, it's likely that you will also need more power than the .22 offers.

 

when the 22 conversion (in the AR15) is fired without the silencer being mounted on the gun. this means that your sub 100 yds, fast shooting practice can be done with 10c per shot .22's, vs 40c per shot 223's. Since the unit costs just $200, for a variant that has a 30 rd box mag, the savings of 30c per shot pays for the .22 unit in a mere 700 rds, which is just 2 day's good practice at the range.

that same savings pays for your form 1 Tax stamp ($200) in the same time/number of rds, and pays for the machineshop aid you need ($100) to make a fine 223 silencer, with a day or less of your own work thrown in. You'll always be able to sell such a silenced AR for a lot more than you paid for it, because commercial 223 silencers (as good as the one you can make yourself) cost at least $700, and that does not include the $200 tax stamp.

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If you are relying on guns in a survival situation then you are screwed anyways. You would have a far better chance of survival if you dropped that weight and got out of the area.

 

maybe, if it's just a local, short term thing. but if it's world wide, where are you going to go, hmm? and if you aint got any way to fight, you'd be doomed, and soon, too.

 

I believe some small communities far from cities will pull together for the most part. We are 80 miles from nearest city. We have ranchers with guns, Farmers with guns, hunters with guns, like minded citizens with guns. Another thing to remember for all those who are thinking about running to the mountains, not only is it hard up there but some people already live there and they may not want you invading their space.

 

It's a good thing this funny guy got banned. Here's a big huge secret for ya'-
A suppressor is of no use unless you're shooting sub sonic ammo anyway. Sub sonic .22LR target ammo is very close to silent anyway, fired from a 22 inch or longer barrel.

 

I actually agree with using a crossbow or pellet gun for most hunting when possible. But, IMO, there will be no WROL scenario.

 

I live in a neighborhood within a neighborhood. Barricading about 5 or 6 roads depending on whether or not we want to bring in the neighborhood to the east would do quite a bit to contain interlopers. Couple good sized creeks a couple good sized ponds, a 250 acre golf course that could be converted to food production, and enough damn deer to feed most of Africa. We'd be fine.

 

I keep a couple of bug out bags but I know if I am in a long term situation I am screwed I have a bad ticker and diabetes

 

Mostly, I guess cause Silencers are illegal?

Otherwise.. good idea for defense,small game. It's somewhat possible to fabricate a silencer..enough to quiet a .22. Not GREAT but.. would help.

 

Not illegal at all.

 

Completely illegal in 13 States.
http://www.advanced-armament.com/Ownership-Information_ep_42-1.html

 

Yea, till you run into someone willing to kill you for your candy bar.

 

Whether suppressors are legal or not, it very nearly makes no sense with a .22 rifle.
Do this very simple test for yourself:
You need a .22 rifle with a 20" or longer barrel, and "standard velocity" or subsonic ammo. Any target labeled ammo will do, because all of that is sub sonic.
Have a friend stand 50 feet away, and take a shot. Your friend will not hear the shot being fired.
/thread.

 

But not in 37 others and certainly not in mine. Doesn't sound like "completely" to me.

 

It sure is in the 13 States. Consider yourself lucky to be in the 37. For my dogs they have to suffer the booms in one of the 13 suppressor illegal States.

 

If you are in a situation where you need a gun, I would prefer something with some power that can be shot from some distance. A Savage Model 10 FCP-SR is a good one. It can be used for hunting as well, and it can be silenced, hence the SR (Silencer Ready).

 

Guns are not the answer to survival.

 

Guns are an absolute necessity in a survival situation...against other people who would take from you what you worked hard for. I prefer crossbow and archery for big game hunting and pellet guns for small game, less chance of alerting others to my presence. As for people, I am a competent shot out to a thousand yards and I would not take chances in a survival situation.

 

Just curious, man sized target is how many mils at a 1000 yards? Lets put him at a 15 degree down angle. Do you know the true distance?

 

At a thousand yards, one mil is 10.47 inches...a man sized target is between 1 and 2 mils depending on whether you are looking for a head shot or a body shot. If you are talking about true precision shooting then you must know the rate of bullet drop for the particular round you are using. But I would put it at a quick in my head calculation of 95% of distance or 950 yards. And adjust from there.
By the way, I use a Kestrel.

 

Just checking the cred. Head shot at a thousand? Or you can do it the easy way and laser it then use the BDC. Personally, I'm thinking about a Horus on the next scope.

 

My best grouping at 1000 yards was 3 shots at 6.08 inches. I average between 9 and 10 inches with 3 different rifles. That's still one mil accuracy. Yes I used to shoot competition, I have also hunted bighorn sheep, longest kill was 780 yards. 10 degree elevated shot.

 

I always found the Horus to be too busy for me...I prefer the Nightforce Benchrest NBR, Nightforce was one of my sponsors when I shot competition so I got the scopes for free...I definitely recommend them but they are not cheap.