If there is a God, does he want us to get the vaccine?

Yes, the Orange Jesus wants us to take vaccine:

 

Try looking back further -- For a fellow that now claims he never said Jesus was for "Faith Alone" doctrine of Martin Luther Idol -- sure sounds like he is invoking Jesus -- aka the Logos - revealer of "God's Will" w/r to Salvation .

This is denial of one's own words .. Straight and Simple

and how is the above not "Free Pass" ideology .. A free gift - as per the grace of God .. that Gift .. Entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven - aka Free Pass .. no strings attached .. Faith being the only Requirment .. no deeds required .. nor will deeds detract from gift .. Free pass through judgement .. Faith Alone.

It is not like this is not well established Doctrine -- it is the Doctrine .. the one that both you and Pro subscribe.. cept Pro over here is in denial .. claims he never said nothing about Jesus issue a free pass .. never heard of Martin Luther's doctrine .. that known as "Sola Fide" .. Salvation by Faith Alone

Why do you think Pro has now gone from the playground .. dead to rights .. his argument 'Crucified" .. as is yours.. the above just one quote .. many others preaching Martin's doctrine .. Then denying this position - the position expressed above - ..in a desperate attept to distract from the fact that "Free Pass Ideology" is exactly the Ideology being professed .. .. and in your case Injeun - claiming "God's Will" directly - the latter declaring this is "God's will" from the Bible.

So .. no doubt as to what is being claimed .. you goona calim now that this was not the "Message from the Cross" .. that Jesus did not claim "Faith alone" ?

Answer the question .. did Jesus proclaim this doctrine or not ? Free Pass Ideology .. Faith the only Requirement/ the only cost - this free gift allows one to pass through judgement unscathed - sins wiped clean by the blood of the Lamb .. sacrificed for your benefit .

Yes .. or No ? chop chop.

 

Are you on medication? Because while what you're saying may make sense to you in thought, I can't follow it in type. And you never stated your own belief. It seems we three believe in God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ, correct? If so, then can we establish a place of peace here at this place and point, before going further? We need a fall back place, Gif. This scrappling is getting us nowhere.

 

What makes no sense ? Do you believe in Salvation by Faith Alone .. or not ? what part is not making sense to you ?

I have stated my beliefs numerous times .. preached them to your direction but, on deaf ears. No free pass through Judgement - Jesus is rather clear that works of a certain kind help aid his decision making process.. and that not all who call "Lord Lord" will make it through the gates... and in general that there is some thinking to be done ..

You the one can't manage to state your beliefs mate .. simple question above ... Sola Fide .. YES/NO "Salvation by Faith Alone" - Only Requirement is Faith and free gift from above given to you.

 

No I do not believe in salvation by faith alone. As I've stated to you a number of times, the first principles of salvation are faith followed by works of repentance and baptism, followed by reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost. Works and faith go hand in hand throughout ones life in multitudes of ways according to the daily challenges of life, ones own personal weaknesses, strengths and callings. Every day one practices the works of forgiveness, repentance, prayer, study, charity, sacrifice, patience, helping and so forth. And thru it all, one keeps faith and trust alive.

Faith alone is dead like a dream or wish, without works. I also believe that one is not truly saved until the time or moment that God says so at the great day of judgment. I am also inclined to conclude that as we work our way thru life, practicing Jesus gospel, that the kingdom of God is being fashioned within us, within our souls. Such that either we are suited to his approval and place or we are not. It isn't a lottery. Life is a testing ground.

Nevertheless, after all that we can do, it is Gods same omnipotence and charity that blessed, inspired, and empowered us to be on that path in the first place, which comes into play in his final determination and measurement of us. So we are never completely fit, neither at the beginning nor the end. And it is always his eternal kindness in our rescue. We couldn't even love God if he did not first love us. Or live without the life he gave us. Or be resurrected without his having conquered death. We could not utter without a mouth. Or thank him did he not first bless us. Or read a prophets words did God not first call the prophet to speak and testify. None of it is about us increasing God. But rather he, us..... Due to the largeness and love within his heart.

God knows me. He is the only person who has ever known me, my strengths, weaknesses, fears, brevity and shame. And I know him divine. That he condescended to love and know me in spite of my utter unfitness and fallen nature, has secured my eternal love. He has broken my heart. Or I should say that his love for me in spite of my adversarial spirit, has broken my heart. Therefore I am won by the master. And while the choice remains mine, who should I choose but my maker and benefactor, to return all that I am or have become, because everything belongs to him, even my soul. And I delight in anticipation of returning all manner of things to God for his pleasure, with all the energies of my soul, as a token of my appreciation for his immeasurable sacrifices and gifts to me. I love my God and Savior with all my heart.

That said, I know next to nothing about the worlds religions, Martin Luther, or Sola Fide...and I don't care. I know my God. He is my instructor, teacher, Father, friend and Husband of the conception and rebirth of my spirit. I testify that this is true, in Jesus Christs name, amen.

 

Well my apologies .. so you believe one can earn passage through the gates via good deeds and so forth so called "Right Action"- not doing bad stuff.

 

The only person here who is talking about "free pass" is the other poster who will twist everything out of shape, which is why its a complete waste of time to discuss anything with him. The Bible teaches we are saved by faith. The thief on the cross was saved by his faith, and died before performing any kind of "works" to earn his salvation. The Bible also teaches that faith changes people "the old is gone and new has come" and that people with faith are "dead to sin" (desire to live in habitual sin dies). Faith and the 'fruits of the Spirit' bring forth the 'works', and such people WANT to serve. Others teach that salvation must be earned by works, but that is not what Christ taught. It cannot be earned. I also posted the "examine yourself" video, which the other poster twisted into sounding like I said "examination" is a requirement for salvation. It is not a requirement, it is an instruction to those who call themselves Christians but there is no evidence of Christ in their lives. Salvation is not about raising your hand in church and being done with it. Either you have the spirit of Christ in you or you don't, and if you do, you are marked with the seal of the Spirit: "When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit". They 'work' out of desire to work, not out of fear of going to hell if they don't work.

 

You are the ony one twisting and weaving .. in the most mind bending acts of denial and hypocrisy.

"Saved by Faith" is "Free pass" idology . - exactly what you profess to believe in - then turn around and deny.

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Jesus can save who he wants for any reason - that is his perogative as Judge -- a Judge who has in many cases determin's that faith alone does not save one.

That said .. the theif on the cross did perform works - followed the teaching of Jesus - the main and most important teaching. Humorous and priceless that you did not realize this .. but I suppose no suprise since you have supplanted the Teachings of Jesus with the teachings of Idol Martin Luther .. and his "Faith Alone" doctrine.

 

Yup. It's just common sense. Jesus sermon on the mount is a blue print for our conduct or works. Otherwise we'd be hypocrites. He said in part, Matt. 7:24 :
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"

At any rate, I have full confidence, faith, and trust in God, that along the course and in the end, all things will work out, with everything in its proper place. God is fair and just in all things. It is we who have the issues. And Jesus Christ has purposed himself to our salvation by working with us thru our issues and challenges to bring about a greater reward in not only our salvation but our betterment.

 

Then YOU are NOT - a believer in Martin Luther's "Faith Alone" dogma. Excellent passage showing why we should not believe this doctrine BTW ... especially if read in context of what comes before -- "False Prophets" - Will of the Father - and so on .

Not sure what it is you have full confidence in Faith do to .. since by your own words .. "Faith alone" does not earn one a free pass through Judgement. - you seem to express that Faith will lead you down the right path - The path to salvation.. I am not clear on how "Faith alone" would do this .. seems more like a leaf blowing in the wind rather than a path to salvation that one might follow. -- just kind of make things up as one goes kind of path.

 

You bring up a very good point or realm of view, in that we tend to see the thief as a criminal on a cross, rather than a man with a whole life. His life could have been filled with good works and sacrifices. And perhaps his crime was minor and the law harsh. Or maybe he fell on hard times, strayed and stole something, which should not be the definition of his entire life. But Jesus knew his heart and his life. Consequently, the thief recognized Jesus's divinity because of the thief's love for God all along the course of his life. But like you said, it was Jesus's judgment to make. And who can fault that or render it anything other than just.

 

My meaning seems self evident. But I will try to think of an example. God says be baptized. My initial view is, why and to what end. Why get all wet. It seems silly, and so forth. But knowing first that God is God and knows all things. Therefore I acquiesce with faith and trust in God that it is the right thing to do, effectively preceding works(baptism) with faith. Faith is putting our hand in Gods hand to lead us. In truth, we are not much more than children, even if we are old.

 

To think Jesus rewarded him for the works he had done in his past life is supported by absolutely nothing in the Bible. The thief did several things: He acknowledged he was sinner, and was being punished justly (repented), and he recognized Jesus as son of God (believed) and asked Him to remember him (believed Jesus can save), at which point Jesus said he will be with him in paradise. So, as far as the Bible goes, his 'work' was limited to repent + believe. That's all he has time to do, and it was enough for Jesus. If he was a believer all his life (as you suggest), it would have been mentioned in the Bible. It stands as an example of how some people believe all their lives, while some others might believe only on their death beds, but both are saved.

Jonn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

"Betwixt the stirrup and the ground, mercy I asked, mercy I found."​

 

Don't know that God says "Be Baptized" to earn Salvation. Jesus tells his Bro's to go out and baptize -- in name of Father - Son - Spirit.

That is not saying one earns salvation via baptism .. in no way shape or form mate .. you have an error in logic happening. Certainly being "baptized" is a statement that one wants to follow the path .. but still has to follow da pat Mon .. the Pat dat I and I as set before dee.

Now "God knows all things" - tis true .. but he ain't tellen you these things so easy mate .. not how the game is played .. can't be wandering around like leaf twisting in the wind .. hoping the wind will carry you down the path ... one goes down da path by walking it - pro-active engagement - like the Jew teaches every child - "Question Everything" even God.

So here da path before you must walk ... Take it !!

 

I see your point, and it is valid. But we don't know but that his life was filled works and faith, as his apparent crime was not the whole of who he was.

 

We don't know, so lets not speculate. We only know he repented on the cross and reached out to Jesus at that point, and on the contrast the other thief joined the mockers in insulting Jesus. Also, lets not forget that at that time there were very few people of faith, because this was the time when Christianity being born and Christ had not even died for our sins yet.

 

John 3:4-5
"Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

From my personal revelation and visitation from Gods spirit, I learned that by recognizing and remembering him, that I had known and forgotten him from eternity. I saw and remembered his divinity. And I was made aware that I needed to repent and be baptized and put away my old life.

 

While we don't know the thief, reason dictates he was not a thin playing card or drawing on paper. But rather a mortal man with the depth of a whole life, just like you and I and the one who joined the mockery. Which cannot be discounted for the cause of this or that dogma. But must be considered for the cause of truth. That said, Prophets had prophesied a savior for thousands of years. And their religious ordinances were established as a type of that. So the seeds of true Christianity were well sowed into the peoples hearts, spirits and intellects. Such that when heard, the truth would be familiar to those who already loved God, faint for those farther away, and an offense to the wicked. So while I support your belief, Giftedone has a valid point imo, a point which I had never considered, even though he presents it contentiously.

 

I didnt see him present that point, but either way it is pure speculation. I believe things which are mentioned in the Bible are mentioned for a reason, and the contrasting behavior between the two thieve is there for a reason. If the repenting thief had been a believer, it would have been mentioned that he was a believer and a thief. Some people will go to their graves cursing His name, while others repent and reach out. The other thief actually joined the people who nailed him on the cross to mocking Jesus.

 

Who knows what was meant by that vague passage .. and what difference does it make in light of the Jesus of Mark-Matt .. so called "Synoptic Gospels" along with Luke.

John has a a number of concepts, ideas and language foreign to the Church of "Mark-Matt" -- and are there colloquialisms of the Day involved .. and/or "Secret Meaning" being conveyed -- not like some big secret .. but something only initiates will grasp immediately.

For example - what did the term "reborn of the spirit" mean to the Essenes or The Church of Jerusalem. and what part does water play in this rebirth.. So many things to consider .. none of which you have - desperately trying to fit baptism being a requirement into the narrative... with no understanding of "What means .. This Baptism"

And did you enjoy the video Mate .. I recommend the movie .. classic lines from our messianic figure such as "Everybody wanna go Heaven - Nobody wanna get Dead" !

Fitting somehow.. like a premonition .. as I did not know you would bring this passage up .. and yet the simplist answer is above .. before you can be "reborn" you first have to die. Which gets into a debate over whether or not a spiritual or physical death is being referred to . on which arguments can be made from both sides.

Either way .. has little to do with "Baptism itself" .. prostrating yourself in front of a priest and having water poured over your head.. being some requirement .. that some fancy ritual guarantee's or aids in your salvation. Same goes for the Eating of the God Ritual ..

 

I don't know. There is truth to what you say. Then again, all three did not become who they were on the cross, but long before, by a lifetime of choices and actions, which one might say came to fruition thereupon.

 

I've already accepted baptism and the sacrament as central to the gospel of salvation. And I see no contradictions in the Old/New Testament or Book of Mormon to complicate my relationship with God. Just because I don't know how many stars or planets are in the universe, I remain at peace as long as the the law of gravity remains constant, and the plumbing in my home continues to function. That said, I will always love and trust God as he is the constant in life. To me he is life, moreso than I am to myself....if that makes any sense.

 

being "central to the gospel of salvation" - is different that saying it is a salvation criteria requisite to entrance. I would agree that the ideas in baptism/Sacriment are part of the gospel but that does not make them requisite to salvation.

One could bring up the example of a 2 yr old whose parents have not baptized the child - bringing us back to that nasty question you have been working so hard to avoid. Should children be roasted on the eternal fire .. for sins of parents ?

As per the "Law of gravity" .. but in this case a different law which I have "God is not an idiot" .. I say Jesus is not going to roast the child.. for the sins of the parents.

What do you think ?

 

In my Church, or I should say, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, baptism and the sacrament ARE requisite to salvation. In my Church, little children have no sins to repent of, or to be baptized from, until the age of accountability, which I think is the age of eight years. That aside, along with all the other questions it might entail, salvation is a personal matter, not "what about's" involving theoretical others. The plan of salvation is not for our condemnation, but for our rescue from our failures. So life becomes a lesson in humility, because via our autonomy and free choice, we have mucked it up. And God must therefore save us. In recognizance of this, is the justification of our shame, and the laying down of our pride and self righteousness. That is if perfection and eternal life is the goal. Still, it is a matter of choice between the stricture of the straight and narrow way, or the wide and broad way into which we are beckoned to sashay. We intuitively know that the end of the easy way is not good. We also know that the beginning of the narrow way requires sacrifice. And that its end is a promise from the very author of salvation. And what is the big scary cost we must sacrifice to enter the straight and narrow? It is the very things that make us miserable and visit wickedness upon others.....our pride, vanity, lust, vices, envy, covetousness, self righteousness, unforgiveness, hate, rage, and so on. But what are or have we without these miseries? Well, a life of peace and clarity for starters. Is the betterment of our judgment a burden or a boon? Is improvement so awful? Anyway, salvation is to bless us, not to make us unhappy. It is in consideration of eternity rather than point us to deaths maw. Yes we all die. But in what manner do we go. I think that is the real death in dying.