If we have free will...

..why did god "harden" the pharoah's heart?

 

I guess we have the free will to act the way they believe their good programed us...?

it is said that you have to leave your free will at the door in order to get into heaven, I mean everyone can't be happy if someone else is happy doing something that annoys other like playing their music too loud... or remembering what God did to you non-believing friends and loved ones, that might make you sad... so you must be reprogrammed

 

Because He wanted to???? Ask God.. He would know.

 

Many have to understand what Jehovah God meant by hardening the Pharaohs heart. He didn't mean he took a good king, and made him evil against his people. If you read back in book of Gen. 41:14-41, you'll see that in Joesph's time he happen to be among a king that not only acknowledged Joesph's God. But appreciated and seen proof of his dream concerning a food drought. This king was good to the Israelites, we know this because he basically welcome Joesph's family,and everything and one to Eygpt ,(Exo. 47:1-7).

for generations the Israelites lived a pretty good life ,(Exo. 1:6,7 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation. And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them). But in time this new king got a bit afraid of their freedom and growth in numbers. He made them slaves and had the male babies killed, so that they wouldn't multiply, (Exo. 1:8-16). so you see, this king was ALREADY, an evil king, Jehovah didn't make him that way. He knew the king wasn't going to treat his people right anyway. The king choose to be that was ,so Jehovah helped him along. In order to show his power.

 

'Free will' is an illusory concept.

 

Quite the imagination. I wonder what this pharoah's name was? Afterall, he plays a significant role in the story. I find it odd, a story with so much detail, and the author is Moses himself, couldn't give the name of the pharoah who would be his mother's brother.

 

In A sense of the word (free will) and its meaning it is an illusory concept... (as are all concepts)... As long as man is caged within that machine called the human body, man is also a slave to that body and will do whatever that body demand to be done in order to survive..... to continue the physical existence... However, I do not believe that the story ends with physical wants and desires.

 

Nobody has ever explained to me what exactly they mean by free will. Seems to me our will is either causally determined, or indeterminate. Neither option really satisfies what the free will advocates want, and there doesn't seem to be much other than that which we can conceive of.

The fairly unjustifiable nature of free will leads to an existential crisis about the meaning of our "decisions".

 

In the physical world (all that science knows how to deal with) there is no-one standing next to you, holding a gun to your head and subsequently forcing you to think or decide any of your decisions, therefore, in the physical world, you have free will.... in accordance with the demands imposed upon you (and me) by the physical body and its inner workings. Even then (under the demands of the physical body) one is still at liberty to do things that are in opposition to those demands of the body. Such things as desires can override those physical demands (to a limit which is prescribed by the body). Desires being defined by "I want" as opposed to "I need". What is the cause of the "I want"? What is the cause of the 'indeterminate' which allows the body to override the "I want"? Example: "I know I need to get some sleep,, but I want to stay up late and watch this movie." So one undertakes the task of staying up late to watch the movie: Then in the middle of the movie, the body slowly takes control once again and one falls asleep in spite of the "I want" desire. Which one is stronger? The wants or the needs? Even the scenario of the movie is in fact 'indeterminate' in that one does not KNOW if one is going to be able to stand up to the task of staying awake. Pesky little problem.

 

Now see how easy that was to drop the misnomer? Actually I have no interest in why God hardened pharoahs heart. That seems to be a question that you need to take up with God since you are the one wanting to know.

 

Has science proved the non-existence of God or the Holy Spirit? Has science proven ANYTHING? Be honest now... PROOF = evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept it as true. Science has failed in that requirement of 'PROOF'. Now if science has failed such a menial task, then how do you suppose that me or anyone else with meager funding and equipment is going to do what science has not been able to do with it massive amounts of cash inflow and massive amounts of equipment?

BTW: your conclusions mean nothing as they are not supported by any evidence or argument that compels my mind to accept your conclusions as true.

 

The 'god' you follow (Yahweh ), YES it has! Genesis has been disproven, hence he bible has been disproven.

Now, are you up to the challenge of proving that you speak to this holy ghost by asking "why did 'god' hardened pharoahs heart"

 

Only in your imagination has the book of Genesis been proven wrong. Where is the evidence or argument that compelled your mind? None has been presented that compelled my mind to accept such a silly notion as you have presented as true.

 

LINK - Chromosome 2 (human) disproves Genesis 2:7

LINK - Population bottleneck disproves the ark nonsense

Many others. I don't have all day to list them..

Now, are you up to the challenge of proving that you speak to this holy ghost by asking "why did 'god' hardened pharoahs heart"

 

Must we get into that discussion again, when you failed at last attempt to explain where the information came from that was in the original first strand of DNA? A little bit of intellectual honesty goes a long way rstoness199.

 

I don't understand how the existence of human free will is dependent upon some ancient Jewish myth. I certainly perceive myself to be free to make my own decisions. Unless I am a brain in a vat and my entire existence is merely an illusion, then yes, I have free will.

As for Biblical mythology, it is impossible for humans to have free will within those confines, since the Bible teaches that there are prophets among us who know the future prior to it's occurrence. Prophecy and free will are mutually exclusive. If true prophets exist, then the future is predetermined.

 

How so? What are the dynamics of prophesying?

 

The dynamics of knowing the future before it occurs demands that all future variables are known in the present time.

Think about that for a while.

 

How does such a process work? Has it been scientifically tested? How does one know if prophecy really works?

 

Yes. It's been tested.

No. It has not (at least, not yet) been found to "work".

 

Free will is the ability of an individual consciousness to make choices within their self-defined decision space.

 

Well, according to this short little article, it has not been scientifically tested:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction Scroll down to the section on 'prophecy'.
'Predictions have often been made, from antiquity until the present, by using paranormal or supernatural means such as prophecy or by observing omens. Methods including water divining, astrology, numerology, fortune telling, interpretation of dreams, and many other forms of divination, have been used for millennia to attempt to predict the future. These means of prediction have not been proven by scientific experiments."

To say that they have not been proven goes to both ends of that proven spectrum... either proven true or proven false.

 

Contradiction, illogic and fallacious argument are rife in every religion's dogma.

Convolution, obfuscation, circular logic and supernatural leaps of faith are rife in defence of such religious dogma.

 

Can you provide irrefutable and unequivocal PROOF of all those claims?

 

Yes, simply read thru your own posts.