if you believe health care is a civil right you should then......

Discussion in 'Civil Rights' started by beth115, Sep 16, 2015.

  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    the European Union Cuba Norway in other countries with socialist Healthcare are behind.

    Healthcare is a commodity you don't have the right to it just like you don't have the right to any commodities. Having the right to a commodity necessarily forces someone to give you a commodity free of charge thus removing any rights you would have to private property or your time.

    Free market capitalism may not be perfect but it is the best system we have.
     
  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    You should buy less or earn more. Governments function isn't to be your mommy
     
  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    more like it's the government with the gun in your face demanding you surrender your money that you spent your life earning or they'll simply take everything including your freedom.

    But then again I'm more of an anarcho-capitalist when it comes to this sort of thing
     
  4. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While it looks good on paper, it's not realistic. You also need to review the original post that I responded to in order to digest the information better.
     
  5. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    How do you address issues, like the recent one involving Charlie Gard, where not only would the national system not pay for any possible treatment (which in and of itself, I don't have issue with), but would not allow the parents to seek aid from any other source?
     
  6. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    People had that right to begin with. There is a difference between having a right to something and the affordability of what that right protects, especially when in the hands of another private individual(s). There is also the difference between what you have a right to and whether or not someone willl provide it for you. By the logic with which most people claim that having a right to health care means that health care should be provided to them, then the right to bear arms means that arms should be provided to them as well. Yet the claim does not seem to get made.
     
  7. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    If you want to take that logic to its ridiculous conclusion, while the constitution mentions life, it does not mention health. Therefore given the number of sicknesses, diseases, disorders, etc that, while they might make life hard, willl not kill you in and of themselves, they need not be covered. Only those that threaten you life directly would be constitutionally mandated. Or we could go the other way, where we ban all things that potentially willl cause death, which leaves us very little to do. See the I, Robot movie, or read the appropriate section in the novel for a better understanding on this aspect.
     
  8. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Hang on, given his statement, that burning anything creates free radicals, and they can cause cancer. By logical extension this includes things like pot, camopfire and pretty much anything else. The question then becomes how much for each substance burned is released? If tobacco ends up releasing a lot but pot only a little, this would explain the lower risk of cancer. Then there is the question of the paper and now much free radicals it releases. I would say it is logical to claim the smoking pot does lead to a risk of cancer, but the true question is how much of a risk does it cause?
     
  9. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to programs such as welfare and food stamps and the like, they are a separate argument as to whether or not we should even have them or how they are run.
     
  10. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Having a right to something simply means that government can't ban it or prevent you from having it. It additionally means that a third party cannot do so as well. So while you have a right to my goods, i.e. neither the government nor a third party can prevent you from obtaining said goods, said right does not mean I am required to give or sell it to you. I have a right to arms, yet no one out there is giving them to me.
     
  11. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that $500,000 is really chump change when it comes to catastrophic illness right? I had to have a series of knee operations in order to walk right. The cost of those 4 operations was almost $700,000. Billed to the insurance.

    Im not talking about using experimental treatments. But widely available and common treatments for illness? Absolutely.

    But as part of any nationalized plan, we also need to look at ways to control the prices drugs and care. There is simply no way on earth those 4 operations I had should have cost that much. Thats insane to me.
     
  12. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most likely since the right to bear arms only guarantees the right to possess and carry arms. That's where it starts and ends.
     
  13. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    I would be OK with a public option, as long as no public money is used on that option.
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is like saying

    ....I would be ok with war if no public money was spent on it
    ....I would be ok with public roads if no public money was spent on it
    ....I would be ok with public schools if no public money was spent on it
    ....I would be ok with public police forces if no public money was spent on it

    the list goes on

    as long as a public option has a co-pay that keeps people from abusing the system, the more in the pool the better

    maybe public hospitals that people can go to....
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  15. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    This same tired argument. If you don't want complete govt control over your health care, it means you don't want paved roads or police either.
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    universal health care is complete control, sounds like your the one making the tired old argument, we were talking about a public option....

    supporting the public police force does mean your again private protection, ect....

    supporting public roads doesn't mean I am against you buying private roads

    supporting public schools doesn't mean I am against you going to private schools

    same with the public option, if you want a private option and can afford it, go for it
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  17. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice to see some spirited debate going on as opposed to name calling. :)
     
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    living within your means is not realistic you have to be kidding me.

    And the government being your mommy is?

    well first off I did and no I don't.

    Living within your means is realistic. Nothing you said is an argument. There was a profoundly ignorant statement and the idea that I don't understand some ridiculous nuance that you think exists.
     
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I don't really like the words there. Having a right to something indicates you have the right to it. I don't have the right to somebody else's product or time simply because I exist I have the right to choose and purchase it should I be able to afford it.

    Nobody has a right to anybody's Goods.
     
  20. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unlike you, i'm not here to argue, i'm here to reason.
     
  21. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    No you're not.

    There's nothing reasonable about saying it isn't realistic to live within your means.

    It is certainly argumentative.

    So you strike me as disingenuous
     
  22. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fine, then in the future don't respond to my postings.
     
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    If you don't want me responding to your postings don't make them public.

    If you don't want to argue don't argue you argued.

    You said living within your means is not realistic a statement that number one makes absolutely no sense and number two was an argument against what I said so you absolutely are here to argue. And you're absolutely not here to be reasonable.

    So why be so dishonest are you trying to convince yourself or are you just trying to avoid the reality that I presented?
     
  24. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Cuba? :roflol: you just lost your arguement
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  25. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry but one cannot reason with the unreasonable. In the future, if you expect to have any dialogue with me on these threads you will not address me as you have; Now, please go about your business because both you and I are done with any further discussion in this thread.
     

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