illegals and their children overwhelming school systems

Discussion in 'Education' started by Anders Hoveland, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. softblueyz

    softblueyz New Member

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    Clint, I don't know where you get your info from, but thank you for educating us as to the fact that it's not illegal immigration that's the problem (not just Mexican, but ALL illlegals), but the government and citizens who pay taxes.

    To say that the illegals "flooded the job market" - taking jobs away from citizens?, what market are your referring to farming? factories?

    For all those who came from lower/middle class families who took out loans to get a college education - shame on them!!!! They should work and save until they have at least $50,000 dollars then they can go to college when they are 40 years old (if they are lucky) and get that degree. And they will also have the work experience behind them: 20 years flipping burgers at McDonalds will serve them well.

    I would think that if you were a parent, didn't go on to college or struggled to get a college education and you have a child or children, you would want to help your child(ren) to realize a college degree, not tell them that they are on their own and need to get a job, save and if they can save enough for a college education good luck to them. Where would we be if professionals didn't take out loans or have help from family to go to college? Do you know how much it costs to become a doctor????

    I tried "Google" to see if there was anything to support your statements and nothing came up. I probably should try "Giggle".:fart:
     
  2. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    I beg to differ. I am a parent who paid for my own education but it took me 10 years to save, before I went to college. It also took me 10 years and 5 jobs to move up the food chain in my profession. It also took my kids 6-8 years to save and graduate college before they turned 35. One flipped burgers for 1 year, but moved on to better paying jobs while going to college, both continued to accell in emplyment and her profession after she graduated college, both are professionals and each has worked since they got out of high school. They are what you would call successfull and independent adults.

    Only a sucker would take a huge loan out on college education. Why, if they are not smart enough for a scolarship, that means that they will be just a number in the system> A dollar sigh if you will. As college is just a money making industry like defense contractors and pharmasuticals. Why pay (in your case) over $100,000 (with interest) for a degree that's worth $50K. If people had the ability to sit down and figure how much debt they will accumilate over the course of their lives they would know that they are falling into a debt trap.

    In addition, by the time the college graduate starts looking for work at 23-25 years old, they will need to get a job that pays at least their college loan. In addition, they will need transportation, to get a job, money to party or go on dates. They will also need to start from the bottom of the barrel in most cases, because the privilaged connedted student will have secured the good jobs, and the ones who went through college without a scollarship, and are ugly, fat or unhealthy will be at the bottom of the employment list, no matter how many letters of recommendation their teachers gave them or how high their GPA was. Why? because, like I stated before, employers want someone with a work history that shows consistant reliability and a history of accelleration in thier profession. They do not want a gold bricker who may sue the company or go on workers comp as soon as they are hired. Apparently you have never been in any professional work environment if you do not know this all ready.

    See, the problem is that people don't understand that they need a steady flow of income throught their adult lives. And that is what employment provides. Too often the spoiled ones who were privilaged will never factor in income, because they had everything given to them by their wealthy parents, and never worked a real job in their lives. As adults, they will not know that money is the only thing that gives them freedom and independance. And most hav been pampered so long that they hav no ability (or fear) to become independent. Hence, the co-dependet ones will likely be a burden on society, with issues of mental illness, addiction, and lazyness. You seen these people, they are the drama queens.

    Those who do take out a huge college loan will need to factor in, how much income they will need to survive each month, and who much they will need to pay for a mortgage, a car loan, and what ever other debt they may have. Oh, that's right, they will not be making enough money to pay off all their debt. Hence, no marriage, no home, and no kids. Why, because the flow of income will be going to the banks for a college loan, credit card loan, and auto loan. By the time they start to save for retirement they will be in their 40s. That's if they can even hold on to a job in this economy and dismal future of the USA job outlook.

    You will be living the American way, by paying the banks twice of what it is all worth. So yea, only fools take out huge college loans to pay for college, with no gaurantee that they have the ability, skill or qualifications to ever find a job in the profession the seek.

    So if you cannot understand this, than you must have wealthy parents or live in a safe and secure environment. And chances are you will be one of the millions out of work for a very long time. People in their mid 20s do not understand how important it is to be employed and to save up money rather than take out loans and blow money.

    You can learn something here.

    I'm not Suzie Orman.
     
  3. softblueyz

    softblueyz New Member

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    You presume to know something about me, which is totally off the mark. Good for you for doing it the way you did and making your children struggle. You seem to think that ALL kids going to college who took out loans or got help from their parents don't know the value of an education unless they do it your way.

    Depending on the field of choice many graduates work while getting a degree and start off at the $75-100,000 mark, enabling them to pay off their student loans. And if they start lower, they excel quickly because they are educated, apply that education and eventually reach the monetary wage level within their field. Of course if you get a degree in anthropology the job pool is small and the wages are low. Some people are willing to go into debt to do something they are a strongly interested in, and the monetary reward isn't their first priority.

    I bet you are really tight with a buck and don't enjoy life and what it has to offer.
     
  4. dixiehunter

    dixiehunter Banned

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    WOW the bleading heart liberals truely don't have a clue.

    Here is something to consider.
    If your an American Citizen. Go to another country and try having your little brat be accepted into their schools.
    See what happens.

    Here's a clue - You will be rejected, and possibly deported back to the U.S. immediatly for being a nussence.
     
  5. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Reason a US kid would not be accepted to a forigen school is the US kid would not be able to speak the language, and they will unlikey have the aptitude to qualify for most of the schools. Highly likely they will need to step down 2 grade levels to qualify.
     
  6. softblueyz

    softblueyz New Member

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    True. That's why American/UK schools are established in foreign countries.

    Unlike the US where children who can't speak English hold back those that can by 2 grades.:-D The US should put that into practice. Let countries open their own schools in the US where their foreign language is their first language. Another choice would be to have classes designed for children who cannot comprehend English rather than put them into the English speaking population. Or would that considered discrimination?? :omg:

    English speaking children's learning ability is held back because of the extra attention that is given to children who can't speak English or aren't up to par with their English speaking/writing/reading skills.

    When my nephew worked and went to college at night - note: worked AND went to college - English was not the first language for half the class and they would "buddy up" for exams. Cheating??? Nahhh. But if two students whose only language was English "buddy up" or talk to each other during exams, it was considered "cheating".
     
  7. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Well, the theory goes that an educated populace is more productive. The more productive they are, the better retirement will be for those on Social Security. Hence, education helps you in the future, by helping the country as a whole. IMHO, this is why the U.S. became a superpower. We were the first to recognize that universal education was a good thing (began in the Massachussetts colony in the 1600s).
     
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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  9. Doug_yvr

    Doug_yvr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sitting Bull monument.
     
  10. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    That's Sitting Bull's grave site, not a monument. For Crazy Horse the side of a mountain is being carved away.
     
  11. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I think your information above validates what I have said; that all people no matter legal or illegal are paying for public education. Therefore...it is misguided to blame illegals for education funding problems! The education system itself is solely to blame based on their fiscal mismanagement of the program...
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Considering it has been in process since 1948, I'm not sure it's something that people need to brag about.

    There are some that suggest it's just a way for the scuptor's family to keep income flowing, and that it really isn't meant to ever be finished.
     
  15. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    And again here on PF you see how the illegal haters don't have anything to say when the facts smack against their xenophobia!

    School funding has always been a political disaster! A program that 'should not' be politicized is 100% politicized and this just shows how incapable the collective we are in terms of managing any government program.

    Lastly, if there's anything government can do for the nation, which can be construed as the best possible hope for the future of the USA, is to give all kids the best possible education! And not K-12 but K-infinity! And not some bastardized politically broken and money drained program!

    But, we have reached the Peter Principle, no longer capable of complex problem solving, so I don't expect anything will change...
     
  17. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Oldman who wears two hats, you are absolutly correct. With the public schools system in the USA so huge and powerfull, it is not going to change. And there will always be fools in the public schools and State funded university systems that divert their real failures towards a easy target, all in the effort of gaining more money for public schools.

    If public school advocates throw the issue of illegals on the wall and it don't stick, they will come up with another reason for public school failures. What's next? Autism? the great phenomina that burdens the school budgets and is growing at an epidemic pace, overpowering the nation. Oooooo, I'm so afraid of the rate of autism. What other sales and propaganda studies and surveys will they come up with next?
     
  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    To some degree we have become a nation of excuses why we can't do better. A 'real' government will define their mission and future path and take 'proactive' steps to achieve the best possible outcomes, changing course when necessary, but always focused on the mission and the goals. IMO the USA lacks any sense of a national mission, no goals, nothing proactive everything is reactive, so we're in a state of perpetual chaos! It would be laughable if I didn't live in the USA! Immigration is only one example in which as a nation, and certainly from our leaders, we don't appear to have the slightest idea how to deal with illegal immigration...or even if it needs to be dealt with? Long ago I started a thread on PF titled 'if we're not going to deport them, then assimilate them into our society'. How simple, easy, basic can this be??? Ask one question; are we going to deport them? From this simple yes/no question, we then decide how to deal with the issue. BUT if we can't even make this one decision, this explains why we are so paralyzed, so helpless, really pathetic...
     
  19. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    The kids of illegal aliens are trapped in warehouses called public schools. They won't be helped by the public schools because public schools are set up to provide jobs for leftists.

    And the kids won't be helped by their parents because the parents don't know how to advocate for their kids. The kids will either drop out or graduate. In either event they will be too ignorant to be employable in a meaningful way.
     
  20. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Not true Albert.

    You must be looking at a small population of the illegals, as most 1st generation and second generation do not use the State or Federal government for fear of deprotation. Most of the parents of the second generation are usually the hard working ones, not the criminal element that have no real job in USA. Often the second generation will do well and are more intelligent than most domestic kids in public school as they are bilingual and are used to interpret and understand for their illegal parents who don't know the customs of the USA. These second generation illegals take on big responsibilities early in life and make pretty good decisions to keep their families immigration status secret.

    Most of what you describe are the 3rd and 4th generation legal aliens who drop out, can't get a job, and/or are spoiled by their parents who are often legal and gave their kids too much support and not enough tuff love. And like all those who are indoctrinated in cristian religion early, they become great low conitive functioning, obedient followers, that feel the need to be part of something greater than themselves. Hence the gangs become their new religion, just like the Taliban.
     
  21. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    Your post is interesting, but doesn't give us much reason for hope.
     
  22. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    I am not a preacher and do not sell hope. And I think independently of any political struture. I look at odds, that are measuralble. And right now the odds are against the USA for growth. I am a realist, that seeks out solutions, and the only solution to the education crisis in the USA is to privitize public schools for better education, which will cut the tax burden to free up states to innovate, and start teaching US kids to work overseas to capitalize on their emerging countries capitalistic opportunities. If the USA does not jump on this opportunity, other countries will.

    As a former Army Recuriter back in Michigan many years ago, I witnessed Germans recruting US high school kids to work in aprentice programs in German auto manufacturing whlie in their senior year in high school. If the Germans were a decade ahead of the USA in education and innovation ten years ago, that is one of the reasons why. Germans and other countries prepare their youth for the future and not dwell in their awfull WWII past. Plus they are willing to step outside of their safety zone and recruit the best and the brightest and train them in the process. The USA fails to do that. In the USA corporations are dependent on the taxpayer to train the youth.
     
  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Many of these people understand and desire something better for their family and kids. This is part of the reason for risking life to come into the USA. Relative to what these kids might have available in their home country, even the pathetic public education system in the USA is greatly appreciated. Further, many of these kids are excelling and will definitely come out the other end with greater potential. If only most American kids had this same desire and drive...
     
  24. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Accoring to some propaganda School union funded studies on the web, California has about 6 million students in public schools. when you calculate the amount they spend on them the annual budget is should be about $875 billion per year. If they increase the budget they will cost the California taxpayer over $1 trillion per year. So I would say $12 billion in propaganda stats is a small figure, insignificant of cause for alarm. there is more fraud in medicade every year, as well as fraud in school spending. If they bring down the school fraud of about $18 billion, they should be able to balance the budget and take out a few billion more in corporate bonds and municiples. that will give the rest of the USA a chance to grab a piece of the California action.

    Hell, California spends almost as much on education each year than the Federal government spends on it's military personell.
     
  25. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    The illegal alien children and the anchor babies are warehoused in public schools. They are semi-literate, can't speak English properly, can't speak Spanish properly, and can't make change. They either drop out and gang bang or graduate and gang bang. Do you think these kids can compete with the Chinese? Even American kids can't compete with Chinese kids.

    Any way you look at it the conclusion is the same. There is going to be a radical reduction in the human capital of the US, and a decline in the average standard of living in this country. And the torrent of ignorance and poverty from Mexico and Central America flows northward without end.
     

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