I'm a progressive I'm also pro life, abortion rights are doomed, give up the fight.

Its simply a matter of morals, either you believe that life is sacred or you don't. If you do then you must see that the life inside the womb is just as important as the life outside. There are only 2 (3) times when abortion should be legal

1. When the mothers life is at risk (or rape)
2. When the baby has died inside the womb.

Lets not kid yourself the supreme court will end abortion rights on the federal level.

If you are a republican and "pro life" (pro birth) put your money where your mouth is and pass this amendment to the US constitution

Section 1- No person or persons inside the united states or any state or territory with in its jurisdiction shall perform an abortion or medically induced miscarriage, nor shall any person or persons, who are citizens or permanent residents of the united states travel abroad to receive an abortion or medically induced miscarriage or face a penalty of no less then one year in prison and no more then twenty years, up to the digression of the state.

Section 2- Congress and the several states shall have the power to enforce this amendment through appropriate legislation.

 

That’s a false dichotomy. You can believe that a human being is “sacred” and still be pro-choice. The disagreement is going to be on the defenition of “life”.

 

So the fetus of a rapist, that innocent little LIFE, isn't so SACRED to YOU? What did it do wrong that you don't think it's "sacred"....

There are no abortion rights...there IS the right to your own body which you are proposing to take away from pregnant women while YOU retain that right.

That is destroying the right of women to their own bodies.

And it's totally unconstitutional and unenforceable.

 

You can throw out the word "sacred" too, since many people do NOT worship fetuses...

 

So the fetus of a rapist, that innocent little LIFE, isn't so SACRED to YOU? What did it do wrong that you don't think it's "sacred"....

It's a political manuver since only 0.5% of abortions are due to rape

There are no abortion rights...there IS the right to your own body which you are proposing to take away from pregnant womenwhile YOU retain that right.

The constitution guarantees life, liberty, and property rights. Privacy/right to terminate is not protected

That is destroying the right of women to their own bodies.

And it's totally unconstitutional and unenforceable.

It can't be unconstitutional and an amendment also it's easily enforceable, those who perform it in the us get punished and those who leave to get

 

Please learn to use the features "Reply" and "Quote". "Quote" is under that tiny American flag thing on the row of icons..


You did NOT answer the question: So the fetus of a rapist, that innocent little LIFE, isn't so SACRED to YOU? What did it do wrong that you don't think it's "sacred"....

It doesn't matter what the percentage is, it happens and you said you'd make an exception for it and I asked you why and you didn't answer.


Please read the following sentence, we agree: There are no abortion rights...there IS the right to your own body which you are proposing to take away from pregnant women while YOU retain that right.


Banning abortion is not enforceable:

How does one suspect an abortion?

Do parents, lovers , spouses, sisters, friends squeal on a woman when she says she had an abortion?


Will they cheer when she's convicted and sentenced to life or execution?


How do they prove she had an abortion?

Where's the "body"?

How is it investigated?

Will pregnant women be banned from flying to other countries?

Will women be monitored monthly by a Big Government agency to make sure they aren't pregnant?

Then locked in cages until they give birth?



How will banning abortion stop abortions?

 

I answered you that I would only allow it if it was needed to get a larger more inclusive abortion ban passed. You have to play politics some times. >_>

No there is no constitutional right to bodily autonomy, the 4th amendment only says without a warrant you are safe in your person, if the government can get a warrant they can criminalize abortion with out violating a constitutional right to bodily autonomy

They were pregnant and they are no longer pregnant and medical records show that she went of a clinic

No probably not, although I would tell the authorities if I was ever in a situation where my future wife got or was going to get an abortion and I was able to stop it that way since I would never let one of my children be murdered.

If you read the amendment, it clearly states that 20 years is the max. If they are in a state with a one year punishment and they stopped the abortion then maybe.

Medical records

In the clinic

By checking medical records, if its in the states the doctor is punished if it was outside of the US then the women is punished.

No, but the country they are going to will be given a notice of the amendment.

No

Nope

 

No, making an exception for rape only proves that Anti-Choicers wish to punish women who have had consensual sex.

The abortion procedure, and outcome, is exactly the same whether for rape or consensual sex so it is NOT the fetus that Anti-Choicer's care about.

You are putting the cart before the horse....abortion has to criminalized first.

Uh, duh, so ya think they'll keep records of their "criminal/illegal " activities?

And what if a legitimate doctor's patient has a miscarriage? Will all women who miscarry be forced to prove it was a miscarriage? That's almost impossible , ya know...

You're right, especially if they love her and don't want to destroy her life......and even if they did squeal they'd have to have PROOF.

Then

A. Keep it in your pants until wed.

B. I doubt she'd be your "future wife", not many women want to be owned like cattle.

For murder !!??? No, that wouldn't be quite fair to other murderers...and who supports the woman's other children while she's in prison? Taxpayers.

Again, DUH, you think there will be medical records of ILLEGAL abortions!!!???

No.

What clinic? Will there be buildings with signs out front saying , "Get you illegal abortion here!" ??

There is no "body" in most abortions and they're quite easily disposed of and probably would be sold to research labs who develop medical cures which I'm sure you would never avail yourself of if the cure was due to research on fetal remains.

,


AGAIN, WHAT records??? The ones legitimate doctors keep in their files labeled "Illegal Acts I've done" ????

That's ttoo silly for words...what sort of "reasoning" did you use?

No, if a person hires a hit man to kill someone (murder) then the one doing the hiring is charged exactly like the one who did the killing.

Why would another country give a shi* about our laws....?

If they are not monitored how does the state keep track of who is pregnant and who isn't???

If you want to treat women like cattle by taking away their right to their own body then treat them like cattle

Then you will not be able to stop abortions....

 

I am Pro-Life but not Anti-Choice. I do not believe in killing people but do not believe in removing rights either. Given that there is only One(1) person involved in Abortion I want her rights and freedoms retained.

 

Two fundamental beliefs of "progressives" is that abortion is unrestricted, and guns must be banned. If you are pro-life, you cannot be a prog. You may think you are, but unrestricted abortion is so fundamental to "progressivism" that to be pro-life means you are either ignorant of progs or fake.

 

Um I'm 2a repealist, I'm the full deal pro life and humanity progressive. Can't claim we need our gun ban to save lives if we kill over 600K babies each year legally

 

Well, at least I got mine in before the ban!

You’re willing to sacrifice some lives in order to get a ban; I guess the ban itself is more sacred than the fetuses you hope to save.

This guy wants to allow the government the power to search the inner bodies of any woman who is sexually active!

Women who plan to have an abortion don’t usually tell people they are pregnant.

So how would authorities know a woman is pregnant if her family doesn’t rat her out? It’s not like you have to go to a doctor to find out if you’re pregnant. You can do a test at home by yourself.

My wife and I didn’t tell anyone she was pregnant before we had the abortion. How could the government have known she was pregnant?

This guy wants to give the government authority to look into a woman’s medical records who may or may not be pregnant!

Why? So they can laugh at it?

Such a naive plan you’ve put together here, one which doesn’t really have the strength to prevent abortions, but one that does give big government a massive amount of authority over our women’s bodies, and once such a precedent has been set, it won’t be long before they find a way to justify a similar level of control over men’s bodies, too.

 

Anyone that kills a baby goes to prison.

 

There is no such thing as a "pro life and humanity progressive". So you have one of the 2 pillars of "progressivism". But "progressivism" is all or nothing, there are no partial progs, and abortion is so sacrosanct to the prog world that it trumps gun rights.

So I question your entire thread. It smacks of a prog masquerading as pro-life.

 

I vote for Democrat progressive.

 

Im generally conservative. I agree that life is sacred and abortion defiles that sanctity.

However, abortion is also foundational to individual choice. Just as we have a right to be greedy or self serving even though those things are wrong, we have the right to decide what to do to our bodies. Abortion is essentially self defense. While its not the unborn's fault that it poses a life/health/prosperity risk, it still does, and defending ones life/health/prosperity is a fundamental right of the individual.

I believe abortion is wrong in all but a few extreme cases (just as I believe its wrong to shoot someone to protect your TV). But we can't use that as grounds for legal restrictions without setting the precedent for a Theocracy. Murder and theft are illegal because they are too socially destabilizing, not because they're wrong. Abortion is not socially destabilizing. It should be resisted only by promoting and supporting alternatives, not by restricting individual choice.

Also, I see no evidense that the SC is going to allow a ban on abortion. That was propaganda and fear mongering to garner resistance to a Trump SC nomination, nothing more.

 

I love the false "life or not " dichotomy. Usually it is put forth by people with zero knowledge of the medical complexities

That legislation as it is written would see the jailing of women having miscarriages. Worse you will lose pregnant women as medical professions will fear to intervene to save a life in case they themselves are jailed

 

What you are is abysmally ignorant about how abortion laws have affected women throughout the world

Lols I loved the bit in the OP about travel

 

Oh woops forgot to put the exception for saving the mothr or where the fetus has already died from natural reasons

 

Updated amendment.

Section 1- No person or persons inside the united states or any state or territory with in its jurisdiction shall perform an abortion or medically induced miscarriage, nor shall any person or persons, who are citizens or permanent residents of the united states travel abroad to receive an abortion or medically induced miscarriage or face a penalty of no less then one year in prison and no more then twenty years, up to the digression of the state.

Section 2- Section one shall not apply to all abortions or medically induced miscarriages that have been performed to save the life of the mother or to remove a fetus naturally dead from the womb or in the cases where at the descression of the state a terminal illness which will see the fetus deadwith in 24 hours of birth be exempt.

Section 3- Congress and the several states shall have the power to enforce this amendment through appropriate legislation.

 

OK how about in the case of HELLP syndrome?

Usually late in pregnancy but it can occur early?

Or cardiomyopathy related to pregnancy.?

Or cancer, especially hormone dependent cancers?

The woman with an underlying medical condition such as epilepsy who has to take Dilantin and risks foetal phenytoin syndrome?

What about the woman with the wanted pregnancy who discovers the foetus is malformed and is incompatible with life? Must she carry a foetus doomed to die?

 

I think you had better read up on how laws like this operate elsewhere

https://news.sky.com/story/why-the-chances-of-change-in-ni-abortion-law-remain-slim-11386927

 

Are you advocating for support post birth as well?

 

I'll add one more clause to section 2, "or in the cases where at the descression of the state a terminal illness which will see the fetus dead with in 24 hours of birth be exempt.

 

Yes