I'm a progressive I'm also pro life, abortion rights are doomed, give up the fight.

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Sackeshi, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    OK, you seem quite capable of finding this quote from the law.

    Then post it and explain why you support it or not....or state some kind of POINT you are trying to make in relation to this law.....haven't seen one so far...


    Why should I be shocked or surprised that a law was passed that didn't do anything....I've seen plenty of those over the years...
     
  2. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that you didn't see my post where I posted the quote the first time?
     
  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    If a woman had a baby that she didn't want, would you say that she shouldn't have had sex?

    Yes it is silly, which is why I didn't say it. Where did I equate writing a cheque with day to day caring? You sure do love a good strawman!

    That's my point. However, you originally just said that it was having NO involvement!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  4. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Of course she didn't. And HE didn't become a father by himself! Do you agree with that?

    Oh my! You didn't read it properly for the second time. Once again, you think THAT I THINK that it is my business, right?
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Then post it and explain why you support it or not....or state some kind of POINT you are trying to make in relation to this law.....haven't seen one so far...


    WHY do you make posts like that? It says nothing, proves nothing, has nothing to do with the topic or issue, has no meaning, doesn't further the discussion.....is that REALLY all you can think of???
     
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    No, I wouldn't say anything because it's none of my business and I know that humans will not stop having sex no matter what anyone says.

    I would think that if she didn't want it she should've had an abortion or adopted it out but that STILL is her choice.

    I would think that if a woman had a baby she didn't want maybe it's because she felt pressured to have one....I would feel that it's a SICK society who make women feel they have to have a kid they don't want

    Denial, the tool of those who are shown to be wrong :)

    :icon_jawdrop: YOU had a POINT ??!!!??? WHOA MOMMA!....and I missed it !!

    Oh, ya, it had no relevance...



    Having to write a check cannot compare in any way to the day to day care of children.....and only one who has NO real life experience with either would say they were the same...as you did.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  7. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yet you were totally okay with saying this:
    DOUBLE STANDARD! :roflol:

    Where did I equate writing a cheque with day to day caring? Will you fail again to say where I said it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  8. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    So you want me to post something that I've already posted?
     
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Would you use that argument if you had to stand before God and argue your case?
     
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Unless you're not capable of it.... is it a big effort? You posted this post and others....are you too tired now?

    I really don't care....it proves nothing...
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  11. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Oh , look, you got all giggly wiggly because you think you finally made a point..

    I said, ""If he didn't want a child he shouldn't have had sex."" because that's what Anti-Choicers are so fond of saying about women ..





    If I cared I would and could ....but I'm not going on one of your meaningless meandering drawn out pointless "arguments" used to distract from the fact you have no argument....:)
     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Having to write a check cannot compare in any way to the day to day care of children.....and only one who has NO real life experience with either would say they were the same...as you did.




    Ya mean your "God" is so stupid he doesn't know what day to day care of children entails!!!! ??? He doesn't know how it compares to writing a check !!!

    I thought he knew everything!!

    His "precious little lives" and he hasn't a clue!!?? Does he KNOW what a diaper is?



    (AND, Standing before an imaginary entity and arguing anything would be a stupid waste of time...)
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a shoddy argument and you know it.

    1) it is not "his child" any more than the child of a sperm donor's is a "sperm donors" child.
    2) He is paying for her "mistake" - more accurate would be to say that the man is paying for consequences of the unilateral decision of the woman to carry an unintended pregnancy (the mistake) to term.

    Since you are in favor of this obvious violation of the Rule of Law - on numerous counts.

    If the State can force a man to be responsible for the consequences of the unilateral decision of a woman on the fate of an unintended pregnancy through law - by forcing him to pay for a child that he did not want created ... why should the state not be able to do the same to a woman - forcing the woman to be responsible for the unilateral decision of a man with respect to the fate of an unintended pregnancy - by forcing the woman to carry the pregnancy to term.

    Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
     
    chris155au and kazenatsu like this.
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    He is NOT paying for her mistake, he is paying for his CHILD.


    Oh that old hobby horse of yours....

    Paying for a your own child is not the same as having the right to your own body taken away by being forced to use it to gestate(use one's own body to sustain the life of another)


    He is NOT paying for her mistake, he is paying for his CHILD.

    Now go ahead and scream on...… for you it's a losing battle....the courts will always try to make men pay for their kids :) :) :) :)...just like women have to...it's all equal...:)
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You talking over my post over my post and not addressing my argument and not answering the question and engaging in fallacious gibberish does make my argument a losing one :)

    Once again - If the State can force a man to be responsible for the consequences of the unilateral decision of a woman on the fate of an unintended pregnancy through law - by forcing him to pay for a child that he did not want created ... why should the state not be able to do the same to a woman - forcing the woman to be responsible for the unilateral decision of a man with respect to the fate of an unintended pregnancy - by forcing the woman to carry the pregnancy to term.

    The Rule of Law = one person is not to be made responsible for the actions of another. You don't get to pick and choose Fox - once you violate a principle - the principle is violated.

    Sure in this environment the folks in power might not use the fact that this principle no longer applies this "Precedent" to do something you don't like but, once its violated .. its violated. There is then little to stop others when they get into power to violate this principle for something you don't like - and it your "its different claim" doesn't make wit of difference. Completely irrelevant.

    The question will not be "is this situation different" - the question will be - Is the State allowed to violate this principle or is it not.

    You think the state should be able to violate this principle .. .OK .. got it.. but then you have no basis to whine and cry when this principles is violated .. regardless of what it is for.

    Yeah .. but but but ... its "different" aahhh eeehhh uuggg .. "its different" .. Doesn't matter. You either accept the principle or you do not.


    Belief in freedom is not belief in freedom "only for things you agree with" - everyone believes in that. Belief in freedom is belief in freedom for things you disagree with -- regardless of the gender of the person in question.

    Belief in equality (equal justice) under the law - is just that. You believe in equal justice "only for one gender" and you are welcome to your opinion - just don't cry like a baby when this comes back to bite you in the backside.
     
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    What really proves this belief in gender inequality is that, for a long time, many pro-choicers believed partial birth abortion was a decision for the woman to make, but they'd be damned if the biological father tried exercising his right to make the decision, even though it was happening outside the woman's body and wouldn't affect her body one iota.

    They believe the baby belongs to the woman.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why should he have to pay for a child that he did not want created - on the basis of genetic relation ?

    Why should the woman not be fully responsible for the financial consequences of her unilateral action ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    During a "partial birth abortion" the baby has not yet left the woman's body. It is a procedure that happens while the baby is still residing withing the mother.

    In a sense - you are just as bad as Fox - you only want the principles to apply when they favor you.

    The golden rule - If you do not want others telling you what to do with your body - then do not do the same to others. Once the baby is out of the woman - its a different story. In this case I do not think either should be able to decide that the child should die - the State is obligated to get involved on behalf of the Child - and if both can not agree - the State should try to save the life of the child - sans complications - and these issues are always complicated.
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Half of the baby has. Don't you think the woman is not entitled to any special control over the part that has left her body?

    (I mean control that the father doesn't also have)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is just such a weird and convoluted example. I don't think either should be able to decide to kill the baby (sans crazy circumstances) once sentience has been reached. This is then not a "two body problem" to use a scientific term - it is a 4 body problem.

    Meaning .. we are not talking about the legal issue between two individuals .. there are 3 individuals involved and the Doctor - (the State).

    A better example would be once the kid is born. The decision of whether to give the kid up for adoption should be a function of both parents. In the case of an accidental pregnancy - if one wants to adopt, and the man does not, the man should be able to keep the child but, the woman should not have any financial responsibility (unless she had agreed - prior - to have a child and not adopt).

    The reverse is also true - "equality under the law". If the woman wants to keep the child - and the man wants to adopt - the woman should get to keep the child but the man should not have any financial responsibility (sans a prior agreement).
     

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