I'm now uncertain if I want a GOP Senate or Dem

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by CenterField, Dec 6, 2020.

  1. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I voted for the GOP senator candidate in my state (he won). I voted for Biden. Up to recently, I wanted Biden but with a GOP Senate, for checks and balances.

    Trump's systematic attack on Democracy with the silent enabling of most GOP senators was such that it irritated me. I see Biden's cabinet picks as further proof that he will govern as a moderate, unlike the Trump campaign (and now, Loeffler's and Perdue's campaigns) want to depict (they portrayed and still portray the situation as the imminent take-over of the most radical leftists - according to them, if the two Dem senators win, it will be socialism, M4A, the end of private health insurance, packing the Supreme Court, open borders, amnesty for illegals, free healthcare for illegals, defunding the Police, they will come for our guns, they will increase taxes on everybody, etc., etc. - all VERY unlikely to ever pass (and most not even supported by Biden), including because the Dems have several senators who are fairly conservative and wouldn't get along with any of this - Joe Manchin of West Virginia for example has said he would never vote to pack the courts).

    Then I was reading this piece from USA Today, and it is pretty convincing. I was considering sending some money to the GOP senatorial campaigns in Georgia... I may end up doing the exact opposite.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/georgia-listening-ignore-conservatives-peddling-100007436.html

    It should serve as a lesson, for the GOP: independents, centrists, moderate voters like me are getting more and more alienated by the GOP shenanigans, and are sliding further left.

    Opinions?
     
  2. Independent4ever

    Independent4ever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    3,542
    Likes Received:
    3,578
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Before the election I also wanted a Republican control senate. McConnell et al have been complicit in this coup attempt and never ending lies and propaganda. It will be a while before I want a Republican anything
     
  3. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,842
    Likes Received:
    1,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Under "normal circumstances", a GOP senate would have been preferable for the checks and balances principle. However, the GOP senators are far from showing an open mind for the needed compromises of the next 4years. I'm afraid that their state of mind would lead the country to a series of deadlocks. Besides, I do not believe the "danger of communism" which the repub propaganda has been spreading for years.
     
    Derideo_Te, Bowerbird, Cosmo and 2 others like this.
  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am mostly always for split gov't. Same party in all 3 areas is usually not good.
    But republicans are so scaredy cats, lack any spine at all, they pretty much are a worthless bunch of losers. It's mind boggling how spineless they actually are.
     
  5. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Just more evidence you are and were a Democrat the whole time, and this whole "I'm an independent, down-the-middle, but conservative-leaning moderate," was a pure facade; and any true-blue conservative on this forum who has still not figured that out needs to check themselves.
     
  6. Gentle- Giant

    Gentle- Giant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    507
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    I truly believe that Biden wants to do a good job for the country while Mitch McConnell will obstruct in every way possible, just as he tried to make Obama a one term president. If Biden fails he wins. That's why we call him Moscow Mitch. If the American people have to suffer because he keeps the senate hamstrung that's just too bad.
     
    Bowerbird, freedom8 and Cosmo like this.
  7. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If Biden wanted to do a good job for this country, if Biden really was for unity, he would not have mendaciously said that he started his campaign based on the divisive lie that Trump called Neo-Nazis "very fine people," instead of telling the truth, which is that he's been running for president for the last 30 years. If Biden wants to be hailed as virtuous and aboveboard morally, he needs to act it. As for you calling him Moscow Mitch, that is based on the lie of Russian collusion, which your party still parrots, evidence thereof be damned, but evidence that Trump was harder on Russia than any post-Cold War president aplenty.
     
  8. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm 86 and was an independent all my life until this year. McConnell, trump and the GOP attitude made me into a registered Democrat. I don't see myself ever voting Republican again considering the few years I've got left.
     
    Derideo_Te, AZ., Cosmo and 5 others like this.
  9. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages:
    31,455
    Likes Received:
    34,888
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I usually prefer a split government - they tend to spend less money. I wouldn't mind seeing the Georgia vote for Senate seats being split - then
    both sides would be forced to the negotiating table more often.
     
  10. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    McConnell Refused to Agree to Warn the Public About Russian Interference in the 2016 Election

    McConnell Has Blocked Election Security Legislation to Protect the Nation From Foreign Interference in Future Elections

    Recently, sanctions were lifted on Deripaska in a controversial move by the Republican-led Senate. Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, was a key advocate for the lifting of these sanctions. Shortly after the lifting of sanctions, it was announced that Deripaska’s company would be making a $200,000,000.00 investment by opening an aluminum facility in Kentucky. Mitch McConnell is the senior Senator from Kentucky. Was this a $200,000,000.00 campaign contribution?

    Yep Moscow Mitch.

     
    AZ., Cosmo, peacelate and 1 other person like this.
  11. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,839
    Likes Received:
    32,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Or it just means that he can simply see beyond party — the political right has become unrecognizable.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Im uninterested in GOP vs Dem.

    Here's a simple test that, in conjunction with each reps voting record, will tell you who to vote for:

    Which is more important to protect with laws- individual rights or the greater good?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  13. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That conclusion is laughable when you consider the entirety of his posting history in context.

    1. He starts posting on this forum, saying that he's not sure whom to vote for: Biden or Trump.
    2. Then, once he "makes his decision to vote for Biden," despite being "a moderate who leans conservative," he makes more Trump-bashing posts and threads than anyone else on this forum, including the open out-and-out Democrats, who frequently like his posts from the beginning.
    3. Now he's making a thread about considering financially supporting a Democrat for US Senate.

    So cut the crap.

    Nobody who is on the fence naturally makes the transition that he has made. If he were truly a moderate who leans conservative and decided to vote for Biden, he'd be a little more quiet about it. Obviously, that is not the case, and this thread is just another piece of evidence in a mountain of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  14. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    16,904
    Likes Received:
    5,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I did basically the same as you, I voted for Biden because I wanted Trump gone. Then I voted for Republican Perdue in our regular senate race and for Doug Collins in the jungle primary for our special senate race. Collins didn't make the runoff, Loeffler did. I also voted for my democratic congressman, David Scott.

    The reason is I want a check on one party having absolute power which the Democrats would have if they win both senate races. No checks on their use of power now that the nuclear option has come into play. Prior to the nuclear option, I probably would have voted straight Democratic. But I'm always leery of one party having complete control of government.

    I'll vote for both Republicans in the upcoming runoffs just to prevent the democrats from gaining complete absolute power. No other reason. I don't want the filibuster done away with for legislation which I'm positive the democrats would do. Further eroding or stripping the minority party of its last rights in the senate as they did with nominations via the first use of the nuclear option. Second, I want the SCOTUS to stay at 9.

    I would wager most folks can see the irony of it being the democrats, the party who supposedly support minority rights being the party to strip away minority rights in the senate. Minority rights is only okay as long as minority rights give the democrats a political advantage. If they can gain a political advantage by destroying minority right, they have proved they will.

    I trust the republicans about as far as I could throw a 4,000 pound bull elephant which translates into no trust at all. As for the Democrats, I don't trust them either as both major parties always put the good of the party over the good of the country. So to save this nation, we need some checks on the party in power. With the nuclear option a fact of life, the only way to have a check on the party that holds the presidency is to keep either the House or the senate in the control of the party that doesn't hold the presidency or that party will run all over us.
     
    Quantum Nerd likes this.
  15. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,839
    Likes Received:
    32,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That isn’t true, trump has turned many prominent and long term Republicans against the party — hopefully indefinitely.

    It is unrecognizable from what it once was. It has gone from being obstructionist in its desire for small government to now representative of nothing more than an extremist cult.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    AZ., Cosmo and Melb_muser like this.
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,188
    Likes Received:
    62,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    dems would not have full control even if they won, they would just be able to force republican to vote on things, let the public see what they are against
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    freedom8, Cosmo and DEFinning like this.
  17. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27,360
    Likes Received:
    8,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your message makes no sense. If Democrats gain the Senate and you support this, then you 100% support the entire Democratic Party platform since they will totally control the federal government. That said, why do you bother to pretend you voted for Trump since you 100% totally support Biden and the entire Democratic Party agenda?

    Bizarrely claiming you voted for Trump while now declaring you 100% support Biden's and the Democratic Party's agendas persuades no one. Messages such as yours never do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  18. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Fellow, is English not your native language? Where in the hell did I say that I voted for Trump??? Will you read again the very message you've quoted, and see again if I voted for Trump??? Jesus! What part of this you don't understand: "I voted for Biden." ???

    Unbelievable.
     
  19. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4,401
    Likes Received:
    2,579
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I noticed that you have already received some feedback on this same question by other members on one of @Andrew Jackson's threads that I would like to reference; since they offer the same points that I would make and they make them better than I would generally achieve in one of my usual posts here.

    @TomFitz, still awaiting your reply, apparently you got off to other things....

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...cott-runoff-elections.581566/#post-1072235173

    @DEFinning over in that thread, in particular, offered some of the best writing I've seen on PF in an attempt to convince you that your support of McConnell remaining the Senate Majority Leader would result in an outcome that you yourself would possibly, and in fact, likely, come to regret.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...unoff-elections.581566/page-3#post-1072246092

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...unoff-elections.581566/page-3#post-1072246628

    This sentence is really quite well done, imo:

     
  20. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,839
    Likes Received:
    32,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not necessarily, Democrats do not vote in lockstep on most issues like the rightwing does.
     
    freedom8, Cosmo and DEFinning like this.
  21. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27,360
    Likes Received:
    8,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No new Democratic Senator is going to go against Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and the rest. You know that.
     
  22. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    True. As you can see from the other thread, my opinion is changing. I was vigorously defending there, the idea that the Senate should stay with the GOP. Now I'm manifesting stronger doubts. Sometimes it is hard to move too fast in a way that seems like contrary to one's core beliefs. So, you're witnessing this transformation in real time; it started in that thread, and now, the GOP and Trump are alienating me even more.

    80 million people voted for Biden. I suspect that Trump's attack on Democracy and on the people's will, enabled by a silent and cowardly GOP, will make MORE than 80 million people vote against Trump in 2024, if he commits the folly of running again. These 80 million are not going anywhere, and to convince a bunch of others, a campaign ad would simply have to say "are you sure you want to go back to THAT???"

    Trump's behavior, trying to overturn the popular will and steal the election, is despicable and unamerican. Like Republican Governor Hogan of Maryland said, Trump is making us look like a Banana Republic. And the GOP, with a few noble exceptions, remains an accessory to the murder of our democratic traditions.

    See that while I did more vigorously advocate for split government in that thread, the last paragraph of my post was already hinting at my growing irritation with the GOP in this attempt to steal the election.

    Yes, they are losing me for good. I think that this attempt to subvert the fabric of our democracy needs to be punished. As of now I'm changing my wish for the Georgia runoffs, to victories by Ossoff and Warnock. My wallet will follow my decision. Next, I'll be looking up their campaign websites and will be making donations.

    I think that if this shameful attitude is punished by the voters, maybe the party will have some sort of epiphany and recognize that enabling a despicable wannabe fascist dictator like Trump is not a good thing for the future of the party. The GOP needs to walk away from Trump, denounce Trump's break with American traditions, and go back to some modicum of dignity.

    Members like @Curious Always can serve as witness that FOR THE LONGEST TIME I was for split government, in the name of checks and balances. We agreed on it several times, in posts and debates.

    But this attack on Democracy made me change my mind. Maybe one party controlling everything will have some detrimental consequences, but we'll be able to signal to Mitch and the Republican senators: you lost control because you didn't have the balls to position yourselves strongly against Trump's attempt to steal the election and overcome the will of the American people.

    ------------

    As an independent and someone who dislikes both major parties (and the small ones, too), I am free to lean one way or the other. At this point, to punish Trump's despicable behavior, I'm leaning Democrat. God help us.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
    Melb_muser likes this.
  23. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    9,056
    Likes Received:
    3,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I had never straight up voted for every D on the ballot until this election. This administration has been the single most dishonest presidency in recent memory, and unfortunately the Republicans haven't just condoned it, they've actively made it a part of their party's platform.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
    Derideo_Te, freedom8, AZ. and 3 others like this.
  24. peacelate

    peacelate Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,483
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I used to vote republican until this year when I realized it's no longer the GOP, but just a bunch of Trump loyalists. My party used to mean something like b fiscally responsible. Now they don't even hide the fact they have no plans how to make this country better and united. Everyday is just democrats are the boogey man. I got sick of falling for their tricks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  25. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    10,343
    Likes Received:
    10,713
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You should meet up with the Lincoln Project Republicans and give them a piece of your mind about how they're not real Conservatives.
     

Share This Page