I'm re-reading the Bible

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greenleft, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    With long periods of interruption reading other books, I am currently on 1 Samuel. Every time I read something objectionable, I wish a believer were in my presence so I could throw my objections at them. My estranged believing wife does not count as she is not well versed in the Bible.
     
  2. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    You think that's bad, try the Qur'an.
     
  3. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Difficult to learn the Bible's meaning just by reading it. Best to use a concordance to help with definitions and usage. I always recommend the following site for definitions and commentary:


    https://www.blueletterbible.org/

    There are millions of online studies on biblical teaching. If you come across a subject that is difficult to understand, google that subject for any essay on the topic.
     
  4. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome to give it a shot on this forum.
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is really very easy to understand once you realize that ll of its stories illustrate one or more of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:11-28 and that the miracles are based on Exodus 34:10. Most of the stories are variations of the First Commandment.
     
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Book of Mormon is the worst.
     
  7. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    It's absurd, but reads easily,
    The Qur'an is a nightmare, a struggle just to get through it.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One interesting thing you may or may not have gleaned thusfar is how little time the Israelite's spend worshiping that YHWH fellow. I recommend keeping this in mind going forward.

    Joshua - in his speech just before dying says:
    OK .. so prior to Abraham other Gods were being Worshiped. The God of Abraham is El Shaddai (not YHWH) - Historians and Biblical Scholars are not in agreement that the God of Abraham was "El - Enlil" - chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon.

    The ancestors of the people who left Egypt with Moses were not worshiping YHWH. Then when Moses leaves for a few weeks the go right back to worshiping El (Bull El and consort Asherah - Golden Calf) at the behest of Aaron - brother of Moses !

    Now God supposedly follows the Israelite's around in a Tent (Tent of the Lords Presence) just prior to Joshua's speech. In fact Joshua was actually in the Tent.

    Why then is Joshua having to convince the people to choose YHWH ? "choose for yourselves this day" ?? why is he asking this - obviously because many are still not worshiping YHWH - despite the Laws in Deuteronomy that every inhabitant in towns where just a few people are found to be worshiping other God's be slaughtered - the whole town.

    After Joshua dies the people go right back to worshiping other Gods. When you get to Solomon - wisest of kings supposedly. Solomon builds many temples to other Gods - including child sacrifice God Molech. Solomon claims he did this to make some of his wives happy.

    After Solomon - and seemingly during Solomon's reign - YHWH worship goes way out of fashion. Elijah tells us that during his time he is the only prophet left for YHWH - he tells us there are something like 500 for Baal and 450 for Asherah.

    Not much YHWH worship going on over the next few centuries either. Then just prior to the Babylonian captivity - someone supposedly finds the "book of the Law" in the Temple and supposedly there is short resurgence in YHWH worship prior to the destruction of Israel.
     
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  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    That is just one more intellectual approach. Intellect excludes spiritual insight. It prevents it from being revealed to you. So a better approach is to sit with the bible and read what you are drawn to until you detect a subtle urge within to go deeper into that verse. Then read it slowly several times to bring you to a deeper peace but do it with out ANY thought regarding its meaning. Just notice the words. You will soon have it memorized and you can then close your eyes, sit quietly, and very slowly repeat it mentally a few times, being VERY CAREFUL to not look for meaning and without trying to "figure it out". Then ask for revelation, insight, knowledge of it. Then mentally repeat it one more time just noticing the words, and stop, "listening" in anticipation. DO. NOT. THINK. Just sit, "listening and looking" within. If your mind wanders, repeat the verse VERY slowly a few more times, ask again, and sit in anticipation with patience.

    You may be VERY surprised at what you receive. Whatever it is, DO NOT REJECT IT. To reject it is "the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" because to do so says your human judgement is more reliable than the Spirit.
     
  10. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    If it needs interpretation, that's a pretty good indication, it didn't come from any God.
     
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  11. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps because of my background as an English major, I have known scholars who did not have a full understanding of the Bible. True, they could recite many lines which may well be unknown to religious folks, but they could not fully understand certain things, esp from KJV as usage from that era no longer is done nowadays. You can, as an example, go by the concept of an eye for an eye ~ lex talionis ~ but few people realize that in Hebrew as it is written, it is NOT intended to be literally applied. How can you know this unless you read commentaries from scholars such as those in blueletterbible.org?


    Re personal insight, Isaiah 28:10 is on point:


    For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little ...


    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/isa/28/10/t_conc_707010


    According to biblical teaching, the book's lessons are purposefully hidden from most people. Only those who are in possession of the Holy Spirit can fully ascertain the Bible's meaning according to that book:

    https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/2-14.htm



    I have engaged in many debates with people who thought they understand the Bible and demonstrated that I knew the book better than they did. Yet, I could not possibly be in possession of the Holy Spirit as I would use it to heal the sick and raise the dead every day (and likely pocket some monies for doing so). Trust me when I told you that there just isn't anyone walking the earth today who knows the Bible better than I do. This without having any external divine "spirit" within me.
     
  12. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Like Scientology, the book is a fraud. There is plenty of historical evidence to prove it.
     
  13. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I've read both.

    I've also read the the Divine Principle and Science and Health. Like the Book of Mormon, both books are considered companion tomes to the Bible and holy books written by cult leaders. Science and Health was one of the books I read while taking a break from the Bible.
     
  14. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    But you are left with the problem that I identified: the understanding and knowledge to which you refer are of the human mind. They are intellectual in nature. IOW they are the product of man. There cannot be any spirit in it, then. And without the spiritual meaning, we have nothing that the writers intended we acquire from their work.

    When I did as I described some 35 years ago over several years, I received understandings that Christians reject as "blasphemy". But they typically fell into my awareness during the process I described, and they fell in fully developed, complete with all details and with no evidence of any process of development.

    Think about that. Complete explanation with all details and I didn't "develop" it over any long or short time. One second it was not there; the next second I had it complete. It was shocking, really. And it was not a human understanding. It wasn't a "reasonable understanding". It wasn't believable by the mind.

    Think of it this way: the whole point to the spiritual search is to "overcome the world" which means to overcome all the influences of the world in us. It means to overcome ego-mind. It means to let go of any notion of "I did it and it's mine". It means surrender. So think of the damage done to such an effort if in meditation on bible verses you were to get what you already believe and learned. IT would be like spirit telling your ego-mind "yes, you're right! You figured it out!" That would not "overcome" (undermine) ego-mind.... it would strengthen it!!! Therefore, the Spirit will not do anything to strengthen your ego-mind. And therefore what you receive will be shocking, it will be new and different, and it would undermine all you believe today. THAT is what spiritual insight is. Spirit is not going to signal you that you are oh so smart and "what a brilliant boy you are!" It is going to dismantle your ego. It is going to undermine your humanity. It is going to destroy the natural man whose breath is in his nostrils, ...... --IF you dare surrender .... IF you dare to give up all you believe, and all your purposes, intentions, knowledge, desires, hopes, beliefs, expectations, wants, and all your claims.

    "Wisdom of this world is foolishness with God." "The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  15. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    After the process I went through that I just described in the above post, I could read the bible, the Nag Hammadi Library, the Bhagavad Gita, the writings of Swamis like Nisargadatta Maharaj, The Buddhists, and I would "see" the spiritual truth hiding behind the words.

    One day two Mormon young men came to the door and I let them in, and we talked. They left The Book of Mormon with me to read. So I read it. I found there was no spiritual truth hiding anywhere in it. It was all just human words. It is a fraud.
     
  16. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    That is a good, solid assessment of mind. It "makes sense". But remember, "the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

    If you would have the Spirit, you must discard the mind and all it's assessments as foolishness.
     
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Surrender? Ego? Belief? These as sources of understanding? Consider the apostles - even they did not believe the teachings until they saw ACTION. Once the miracles took place, then they believed. Nothing in the Bible teaches that you have to blindly accept any teaching, any 'revelation', unless and until you see or experience actions of the type illustrated in that book. That's the way it was for the apostles and for everyone else.

    That same "Holy Spirit" purports to be the same today as ever and that it remains unchanging. Well now, let's see - In the Old Testament we are told that spirit saved Daniel in the den of lions. If this was true, then why did that same spirit fail to save spirit filled born again Christians from lions when they were in the Roman rings as history shows?

    In the New Testament we are told that the spirit can heal the sick and raise the dead. It is said that Jesus's followers can duplicate and surpass all of his miracles thru that same source ~ John 14:12. Anybody who reads this stuff can readily ascertain its meaning. You do not need a college degree nor any suppression of ego to understand any of that. The proof is in the pudding as they say - thus, if any of this is for real, if any of it is valid, then it is proven by actually taking place. "Prove me now herewith" as per Malachi 3:10. See John 6:44 where it is said that "no one can come to God unless the Father draws him". Thus, nothing anyone says or does, including suppression of one's ego, will avail you anything unless and until this god takes action such as miracles.
     
  18. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The current KJV is a variation of the 1769 KJV Bible.

    *One little-known fact, is that for the past 250 years, all "King James Version" Bibles published anywhere by any publisher are actually Blaney’s 1769 Revised Oxford Edition of the 1611 King James Bible.
    The original “1611” preface is almost always deceivingly included by modern Bible publishing companies, and no mention of the fact that it is really the 1769 version is to be found, because that might hurt sales among those imagining that they are reading the original 1611 version.*
    http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/index.html
     
  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The things of the Spirit are not known by most people. They don't recognize them even when they are pointed out.

    John 5:39 - "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life."
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    And we see that to be true.
     
  21. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Healing the sick, raising the dead, calming stormy seas, feeding masses of people with a half filled bucket are all readily decipherable as miracles. All it takes is for action to take place, not mere words.
     
  22. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I have no interest in deeper study and meditation on scriptures as I am an atheist. I'm treating the Bible just like any other book; as casual reading. I never read a book more than 3 times. This is my second read and it's my second English translation. After I finish the NRSV cover to cover, I'll read a third English translation and that will be my last.
     
  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I think the "translation" argument is mostly BS. And I think you already have all you need from what you've read. Reading it again is fine but I don't think you should feel like it's essential.

    I took up meditation on it because I was interested in doing so. But it's not for everyone.
     
  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you get into this book you may be reminded of many statements in the Jewish and Christian scriptures and if you are like me... they will make much more sense when explained from this angle.


    http://allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/
     
  25. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I just found 3 miss-prints in my NRSV Bible! In 3 places it was written Joram where Jehoram was supposed to be. At first I thought it was a blatant contradiction, but then I checked my NIV Bible and the reading of the verses were correct there.

    If anyone has an NRSV Bible, please turn to 2 Kings chapter 8: verses 21, 23 and 24 to make sure it's just a miss-print on only my copy and not all copies of the NRSV translation. If it is in all copies of the NRSV, then my admiration for this specific translation has deflated significantly.
     

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