I'm tired of the "Corporations need to pay their fair share" BS mantra

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by DentalFloss, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    Let's get this straight...

    Corporations do NOT pay taxes, even if it's dressed up in a bow to make it appear that way.

    Rather, they are merely tax collection agents who collect and extract said taxes from US, their customers. It is nothing more than another hidden tax that we the people pay for, even if we have no idea how much.

    It's just like the cost of goods sold. Do you really think Best Buy is paying HP for that computer you strolled in and purchased? No, while they may be the ones writing a check to HP for said computer, it's YOUR money that's ultimately being used to actually pay them.

    Change my mind...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  2. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    In the 50s they paid 35% of taxes, now about 10%. We need to invest in America and Americans again like we did then, before Reagan and his giveaway to the rich and propaganda disaster.... The worst inequality and upward mobility ever is no joke.
     
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  3. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    No, they didn't, which was the entire POINT of my OP. Did you actually read the post or just the headline?

    In the 50s they paid 0% of taxes, and now they still pay 0% of taxes, it's just bundled up in a bow to make it appear that way to low information voters. Or just low information people in general. As I already explained, they don't PAY taxes, they COLLECT them, from US!! We're still paying all of taxes, regardless of what illusions they try to create that makes it look otherwise.
     
  4. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    We, as consumers, pay sales taxes (local, State and Federal) but corporations pay real estate and other taxes. Why do you think they don't? What evidence do you have that says we, the single consumer, pay ALL taxes for corporations?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  5. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    It's nothing like cost of goods sold. It's a tax paid on income. Revenue minus the cost of goods sold. There is absolutely no data to connect inflation to tax policy.
     
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  6. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    They pay a lot less than 100% of the taxes. Just another way of getting taxes to invest in our infrastructure and education and training to end the worst upward mobility ever. You are a misinformed person LOL
     
  7. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Corporation is a person and it should not pay income tax. Rich people should pay tax.

    The answer isn't to tax corporations. It's to close the loopholes people use, with regards to dividends and gains to get lower tax rates and then to eliminate all the itemizations and just make the living wage the standard deduction everyone gets so that people cannot abuse that system.
     
  8. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then they need to start.

    Of course it's the consumer who pays for profits, taxes, salaries, production.... The government just needs some of those profits to give back to the consumer in the form of services. It's how capitalism works.

    In the end it's the worker the only one who produces wealth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  9. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    They are borrowing like crazy right now taking advantage of the near zero interest rates the Fed is charging them.
     
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  10. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    I don't need any evidence to show something that is inherently obvious to anyone who bothers to look at it seriously and is intellectually honest about what it is that they see. We ALSO pay for the sales taxes (at least that one is itemized on our bills), and we also pay for their real estate taxes (which I particularly hold disrespect for as it means you never can TRULY own your own home), we pay their payroll, we pay for cost of goods sold, we pay for their income taxes, office furniture, corporate headquarters, "inflated" CEO salaries, and for literally EVERYTHING.

    Why? Because we are the final consumers of EVERYTHING bought and sold in the country. And we pay for EVERYTHING. We're the bottom of the food chain. And that's completely OK, that's how things are supposed to work, indeed it's how things MUST work in order for them to work at all.

    But it also means that any delusions about corporations "paying" taxes are just that. Delusions. Or more correctly ILLUSIONS created by politicians and consumers who want to stick it to "evil, greedy corporations".

    So, yes, we pay their "income" taxes. The same way we pay for their staplers, and everything else they "own".
     
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  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    give the tax cuts to the working class and make the rich pay their fair share

    people like Trump not paying taxes is not smart, it's being greedy and making the working class cover their portion
     
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  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, and that means savings accounts are worthless

    give that zero percent loans to the working class to pay off credit cards and mortgages
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the fed is even buying stock right now, what happens when the fed sells that stock and stops buying it
     
  14. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    yes and no. in some markets, where management can't raise prices owing to competition, management income and/or dividends will have to sacrifice to pay the tax.

    IN other markets, where there is a lot of headroom, they can pass it to consumers.

    In some markets, where the clientele is affluent, I don't personally care if a rich guy buying a yacht has to pay a higher sales tax.

    But, given the fact that CEO pay today is 300 to 1 (lower rung pay), compared to the 50s when it was 50 to 1, I'd say there is a lot of room for execs to cut the fat at the top and still be competitive.

    But, you have to be careful with your 'logic' because stock gains have historically done better with democrats in the white house, so wrap your head around that one. The truth is, your logic is simplistic, and the economy is a lot more complicated.

    https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/CorporateTaxation.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  15. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    I'll tell you what happens, stocks sink and Trump can't claim he's good for biz.

    He's buying the presidency with tax payer money, basically, that's what it looks like to me.
     
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  16. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    They can't, though. Even if somehow they wanted to. It is mathematically impossible. Even if they voluntarily gave money to government that their returns said they didn't owe it's still offensive, as then THEY become the decision makers of how much of MY money is going to government in the first place. No, leave that money in my pocket, please, and then I'LL decide if I want to send them more than *I* owe.

    Then all you're describing is a massive wealth transfer. No surprise, really, you guys LOVE wealth transfers. But in totality it's just using our OWN money to provide consumer services that we may or may not use. Paid for by us.

    Why is this so damn hard to understand???

    I think you meant "consumer" when you accidentally typed "worker". But, like business taxes in the first place, you just created (very intentionally) a clever way to create the illusion of some sort of "fairness" that isn't real.

    "Nooo, don't worry about it poor people, it's the mean, greedy corporation that are paying those taxes, not YOU! But we're gonna give you free s*it with their money, how's that sound?" Sounds like votes for lies to me, because those same poor people are too dumb to see that is actually IS them who's paying that tax in the first place, and you are more than happy to empower them to keep thinking that.

    It's all just a house of cards. If they're just going to buy services for us with it, why not be intellectually honest enough to charge US for it in the first place? At least that way we know what we're paying (with corporate taxes, there is NO way for us to calculate it, even if we wanted to), and whether or not we think it's a good use of our money, or rises to the level of being so stupid that the politicians who supported it should be sent to the Unemployment line come election day.
     
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  17. Chrizton

    Chrizton Newly Registered

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    All money belongs to the US Government. None of it is YOURS.
     
  18. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    And we're paying for that, too.
     
  19. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Sure I agree but how do you do deal with that? Really it's abuse of shareholders and I'm not willing to hurt the corporation more just to stop CEOs from making so much. There has to be a way to keep the board and CEO from dictating their own pay or maybe limiting it to a percentage of the company's profits without explicit approval from the shareholders annually.
     
  20. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Good thing the money itself has no value. It's only.a representation of value in the assets and services we have and provide.
     
  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    Here's an aspect you haven't looked at.

    In an age of deficits, getting rid of the corporate tax means we'd have to raise the tax directly on tax payers.

    So, even if you are correct, therefore, citizens pay, one way or the other.

    Therefore, what looks better for a politician, politically?

    French administrator Jean-Baptiste Colbert reportedly said [on the art of taxation], “consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.” Judged solely by this standard, the corporate income tax has worked well. (I plucked that line from the very last line in an article on corporate taxation, which I linked to in my previous reply ).

    This is precisely why what you suggest, even if true, is not going to happen, nor should it happen as it will result in 'taxpayers hissing'. Capiche?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    in one sense, yes, but they should justify taking it from you, if and when they do, insofar as taxation, etc. The value you produce from your labor, is yours, where it gets tricky is when you trade that value for paper receipts which are owned by the government. I'd call it a grey area.
     
  23. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    So what you're saying it that you have no problem with yet another hidden wealth transfer specifically designed to trick people into thinking it's not them who is paying those taxes to begin with. Especially when the "them" involved is evil, rich management and/or dividend recipients in the first place. Can't say that surprises me.

    Well, I'll give you credit for calling it a sales tax, which it absolutely is, but I think it's more accurate to call it a "hidden sales tax". Because it most certainly is that, too.

    Hey, more "let's eat the rich" leftist/socialist rhetoric. I guess that's no surprise, either.

    I really don't care which party may or may not benefit by widespread knowledge of these facts. What I seek is full disclosure to the payers exactly how much they're ACTUALLY paying in total taxes. As I have pointed out, at least a enumerated sales tax does that, if only to the degree that someone is willing to do the work to calculate what their real(er) total actually is. Hell, I would think those of you on the left would LOVE this idea, as it amounts to a hidden, "regressive" tax that hits the poor the most. Sure, most poor people aren't out buying yachts, but they do buy groceries, gasoline, tires, and lots of other things that the corporations who sell or make such things are paying "corporate" taxes on. Extra taxes on yachts are so small that it's barely a blip on the radar, but groceries and gasoline is not. But hey, at least charging mean, evil oil companies makes up for it, right?

    Well, no, because they, too, are using our money to pay those taxes anyway.
     
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  24. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    They sure act like it in any event.
     
  25. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    yeah, I think the truth is in there somewhere, we just have to roll up our sleeves and get to work and figure it out.
     

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