immigration; legal or unlegal

Discussion in 'Immigration' started by delade, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see anywhere that states those immigrants get any federal money, if that is the case.

    I don't see where those states get money from the feds either. It's up to them to deal with who they invite.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  2. shortbox69

    shortbox69 Newly Registered

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    Chy Lung v. Freeman, 92 U.S. 275 (1876)

    The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868.

    How do you figure the Chy Lung case came before the 14th Amendment?

    The 14th Amendment is nothing more then declaratory of existing law, that law being the Civil Rights Act of 1866. So if you were to somehow get the 14th Amendment negated you still have the same laws in effect via the Civil Rights Act of 1866.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  3. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't think the U.N. made the laws? Congress has no say. This is a violation of the Constitution.

    They can't supersede the Constitution. That's illegal.

    We need to roll back these violations.

    https://conventionofstates.com/
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  4. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    Correct. That is the reason you don't want to give the federal government any more control than the Constitution allows for.
     
  5. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    You, yourself, have acknowledged that many people come to this country to download babies for the express purpose of having children so that those now American children can somehow "anchor" the children here. I hate to tell you this, but legally, that is not true and can be evidenced by the numbers of those parents who are being deported under Trump.

    POLICY, not law, is what has been at the core of the "anchor baby" argument. Nevertheless, the reality is simple: Foreigners are economically beneficial to this country. Trump, who claims to be on your side, willingly hired undocumented foreigners in the past. Now, he is suddenly the champion of your cause? You're about to get screwed.

    Improper Entry is the federal equivalent of you driving down the road and making an improper U Turn. Yeah, if you get enough hits against your driving record and it can become a felony, but in and of itself, it's no big deal. The government will tell you what you want to hear because they know this issue is headed to the United States Supreme Court. When it reaches that level, the Court WILL tell you that you cannot separate families over a minor offense like improper entry. Then Trump and the phonies like him can parade around and tell you they did all they could do.

    I asked the rooster in post #4 if he / she had any objections to sending blacks to Africa. Unless you have an answer to that, you would never understand the solution. IF you are all about the law, then know this: The 14th Amendment was illegally ratified AND it has been ruled on in our Courts. If you're born here, you are a United States citizen. The only remedy there is to nullify the 14th Amendment. IF people cannot become citizens and they cannot get ANY benefit or privilege of citizenship, then they will think long and hard about coming to the United States. The bottom line here is that if the 14th Amendment were repealed and someone came here from south of the border, but could not get any help because they did not have American relatives and the government would not spring for anything other than a bus ride to Mexico,

    The alternative to this course of action means that you will forfeit more and more of your individual Rights, America will become more and more liberal, and as they move left, they will ultimately out-vote you and this entire discussion becomes moot. Right now I am content to watch California offer refuge to the undocumented foreigners, the feds cut off funding and then allow the state of California be the model by which we judge this issue by. IF the right wing is correct, and California starts to drown, they will bow down to the feds and beg Uncle Scam to come in and remove 'em all. Then you have a definitive answer for a solution without having to pass another law.

    But know this: my dog in the fight is that the precedent protecting Sanctuary Cities is protecting YOU and me and it has nothing to do with immigration. But, if you're all about the law, then you can no more justify the 14th Amendment than the left can justify their position.
     
  6. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    Obviously, if California has no problem with foreigners being inside their state, they ARE invited. Just because it offends you does not alter the fact. If the people of the state of California are comfortable with it, they are invitees. You just need a dictionary.
     
  7. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    IF you are all about the law, you must acknowledge the truth. And the truth is, the federal government created an uniform Rule of Naturalization. They did. Citizenship was limited to white people.

    And while the rest of America wails about how "racist" that is, China is 98.5 percent Han Chinese, Japan is 97.5 percent one race, Zimbabwe is 99.7 percent black, North Korea is at least 97 percent one race... shall I keep going?

    Those who obsess over immigration have failed to state a case as to why it is worth forfeiting every Right they have in the Bill of Rights just to make us free of the people from south of the border.
     
  8. shortbox69

    shortbox69 Newly Registered

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    Their presence wasn't invited, California did not request their presence. There is a big difference between requesting someones presence and protecting someones presence, protection doesn't = invited.
     
  9. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    How do you know what California does and does not do? I've been to California. There are plenty of people urging Hispanics to bring their children into the country; to avail themselves of freebies, etc. The fact that California should tell you they've done everything except send them a written formal invitation.

    Gee whiz. In 1790 people came by the millions, knowing they couldn't be citizens. And back then, you didn't even have a Statue of Liberty. By the way, that is THE invitation. Here are the words at the base of that Statue of Liberty:

    "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
    "

    And if you disagree; if you don't like it, why not take it down... the same way the blacks took down all of YOUR historical monuments, statues, and memorials? If you can't take down the Welcome mat, you've probably got a major issue with any proposed changes - other than what I can offer you.
     
  10. shortbox69

    shortbox69 Newly Registered

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    ??? American children can somehow "anchor" the children here this doesn't make any since.

    Not all foreigners are beneficial to our country, every economist out there will tell you that low skilled foreigners are a drain on our economy and effect our lowest wage earners the most.

    Improper Entry is a Misdemeanor with a 6 month jail sentence and a monetary fine and goes on your personal record as a crime, an illegal U-turn is nothing more than a monetary fine and only goes on your driving record.

    Blacks from Africa were brought here against their will, illegal immigrants come here of their own volition.Your claim of the 14th being illegally ratified comes from the 1950's theory of Walter Suthon and his disagreements with Brown v Board of Education. The Wong Kim Ark case says the parents must be here with a recognized domicil in order for the child to be born a US Citizen. Let's say the 14th is repealed, how do you now deal with the Civil Rights Act of 1866, since the 14th Amendment is nothing more than the 1866 law codified into the Constitution?

    Why pass another law, simply enforce the laws already on the books?

    Immigration law has no effect on Citizens.

     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  11. shortbox69

    shortbox69 Newly Registered

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    I've been to Georgia, in fact I have family there, since there are illegals there, were they also invited into Georgia? Your farmers are urging people to harvest the crops before they rot in the fields after all.

    In 1790 many from what is now Europe came by the millions, very few from anywhere else came here as travel was long and expensive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States

    The Statue of Liberty has absolutely nothing to do with immigration, the poem was placed into the pedestal many years after the erection of the statue and no person being processed even saw the poem during that time.

    What you are offering?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  12. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    1) What you said in your opening sentence does not make sense and makes even less sense that you quoted me over something I did not say. Do you have trouble with reading and comprehension skills or wanting to initiate a whizzing contest?

    2) I have many non-partisan studies that your Congressman and mine have read which dispute the propaganda put out by the John Tanton non-profits (FAIR, NumbersUSA, CIs, etc.) Tanton is known to support eugenics and has supported white supremacists so what he finances is hardly credible compared to non-partisan studies. If they were not profitable, businesses would not hire them

    3) I had hoped to avoid you calling immigration a crime. It is not And let's be very specific here... we're talking about coming into the country without papers. It is federal civil law, not a crime. The best sources for that are those who enforce those kinds of laws. I'd be glad to tell you what they told me while I was spending six years working IN immigration law

    4) With the 14th Amendment off the table, this is not an issue. Let me quote Black's Law Dictionary to the extent of your question:

    "Domicile: The place where a man has his true, fixed, and permanent home..."

    Those who would fall under the guest laws are not here permanently. Problem solved.
     
  13. shortbox69

    shortbox69 Newly Registered

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    I quoted your exact words and said they don't make sense. Whats your problem?

    This doesn't even touch what I stated. Nothing I stated had anything to do with Tanton and his groups. Many economists also state that the only ones profiting are the employer and the illegal. Even Paul Krugman, the Progressive Economist admits it. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DEFDC1430F934A15750C0A9609C8B63

    I never called immigration a crime, here is where I ask you Do you have trouble with reading and comprehension skills I said Improper Entry is a Misdemeanor, which is in fact a crime. http://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/f...seminar/2012/4_Table_Federal_Misdemeanors.pdf
    Page 11, under Title 8.

    You still leave the Civil Rights Act of 1866. As to your quote to Blacks Law Dictionary, Domicil has much more than that little bit. In fact, domicil has many meanings including a temporary domicil as recognized by the allowance of entry into a country by the countries government.
     
  14. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    What seems to be YOUR problem? The issue was brought up about "anchor babies" Under this theory many foreigners come here and download a baby on U.S. soil. That act of having a baby on U.S. soil means that the foreigners now have an American relative. How hard can that be to understand?


    You said: Many economists also state that the only ones profiting are the employer and the illegal. Even Paul Krugman, the Progressive Economist admits it. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DEFDC1430F934A15750C0A9609C8B63

    RESPONSE: More economists look at the bigger picture. Some of those things include, but are not limited to:

    * $12 BILLION dollars in taxes per year paid to Socialist Security that they will never have access to

    * The increase in profits because, Hispanics especially, produce more work at a lower cost to the employer

    * By renting, buying, selling, etc. foreigners are generating opportunities for Americans

    * Making low lost cost available to those on limited and fixed incomes allows the poor to keep their homes up. Note: I advertise for people to do gigs around the house. Who shows up? Bubba and his 7 mpg gas hog truck with enough equipment to build a city and the other guys are three Hispanics in a truck. If you are like those on fixed incomes and make $10 an hour, how can you afford to give Bubba $140 to cut your lawn when the Hispanics will do it for $25?

    If Americans want jobs and teens need jobs, why don't they come out and apply for the gigs? You can't blame Hispanics for the laziness of Americans

    You wrote:

    "I said Improper Entry is a Misdemeanor, which is in fact a crime. http://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/f...seminar/2012/4_Table_Federal_Misdemeanors.pdf
    Page 11, under Title 8
    ."

    RESPONSE: I'm going to BEG you not to go down this road. It is fruitless and it will bring out nutjobs to the point that you cannot have a reasonable discussion and worse, it won't mean squat at the end of the day.

    The Second Amendment is quite clear. Title 8 USC 1325 is also clear. And I can bury you under more best evidence than you care to consider. Just a preview: If ALL a person has is a charge of improper entry, they do not go into a judicial proceeding, but an administrative hearing (Immigration judges work for the Executive Dept., not the judicial branch of government. Let's agree it's a misdemeanor. I promise you that the United States Supreme Court WILL determine that is a violation of the 8th Amendment to separate families over that infraction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  15. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    Honestly, you have an advantage over me so I cannot compete with you here. I can't use the quote reply feature for every paragraph and the mods were of NO help. They gave me one sentence that didn't help.

    So, yes I DO invite Hispanics here. I don't give a rip whether or not they have human registration papers. I had major surgery done and I ran into the very situation. "Contractors" came running from a small Craigslist ad when I made it plain, I needed a small lawn cut a few times. The pressure release valve went out on the water heater. I called a plumber. He wanted $245 and the POS charged me $45 for a service call. I already had a pressure release valve. I told him to get the Hell out of my house.

    Called someone I knew and he charged $30 and the change out took 20 minutes. The kid next door sits on his ass playing on the computer and his mother gets the Hispanic guy to cut their lawn.

    Elderly people on Socialist Security have two choices: maintain their home or the county will take it. It's either Bubba or the guy who can fix it within their budget. It's not our fault that most Americans of working age don't want to work and we damn sure don't feel like losing our homes to people that want to rip us off. A doctor barely makes what a plumber does.

    And yep, farmers invite undocumented people rather than lose their crops. One guy advertised in a local paper, on Craigslist and with the Dept. of Labor (all unemployed in our state are required to register there.) He offered bonuses, etc. On the day of opening season, only four Americans of the 200 people this guy needed showed up. The balance, a total of 148 (counting the Americans) Only two of those lasted until lunch.

    I asked you earlier about repealing the 14th Amendment. In 1883 plans were made to add the poem to the Statue of Liberty. In 1903 the words were added to the Statue of Liberty. In 1868 the 14th Amendment was passed, making those words on the Statue of Liberty the current Welcome mat. You trying to avoid it or is beginning to sink in - about my question?
     
  16. shortbox69

    shortbox69 Newly Registered

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    I don't have a problem, you were the one puffing your feathers over your poorly worded statement. All you had to do was clarify what you were trying to relay. Now to your point. Children do not anchor the parent here, the parents can be removed at any time and they can take their children with them.


    Some economists include legal/skilled immigrants in with the illegal/low skilled immigrants, which shows a net positive, but without the legal/skilled immigrants, illegal/low skilled immigrants are a negative to our economy. Illegal workers pay a total of about $12B per year, half of that is by the employer, a portion of it is by legal workers with mis-matched numbers, others by persons who failed to change their names after marriage or divorce. Trying to claim illegal immigrants pay the total sum of $12B is dishonest, at best, since they are roughly 5% of the workforce, they may pay in about $3 - $4B, all of which goes into a separate account and not directly into SS.



    I'm not blaming anybody. You sure like to create straw men so that you can turn right around and knock them down.

    I've not gone down any road, I simply made a statement and backed it up with fact.

    Improper Entry is tried in a Federal District Court, otherwise known as criminal court. You are confusing a visa overstay having an Administrative Hearing. I guarantee the Supreme Court will do no such thing in determining the separation of families. It has been happening for well over 50 years, why has there been no court case to date?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  17. shortbox69

    shortbox69 Newly Registered

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    I don't know what you think I have avoided, I answered your question and posed one to you, you keep ignoring it. If the 14th were to be repealed, what are you going to do about the Civil Righs Act of 1866, since the 14th is simply that law codified?

    There were no plans made to add the Lazarus poem to the Statue of Liberty. It was forgotten and played no role at the opening of the statue in 1886. It was added on a small plaque in 1903 by the then First Lady after a friend of Emma's ( Georgina Schulyer) petitioned in 1901 to have it placed in it to memorialize Emma Lazarus. About 1/4 of all immigrants into the US may have passed by the Statue on their inbound trip, that does not make the poem a welcome mat.
     
  18. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    My responses to the above are in red. This is my second warning to you: If you came here looking for a pissing match, I can hold my own. This is not the war you want if you want to address the immigration debacle. Unless you've BEEN IN immigration court, there are easier battles out there. And this one has no end and it means NOTHING because only YOU will give a rip.
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member

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    There's only one little problem with that plan.

    With a population approaching 40 million (that's more than the entire population of Canada!), California actually has MORE people than the other 12 Western states (including Alaska and Hawaii). Said a slightly different way, if the geographic Western half of the United States was its own country, more than half of its population would be inside California.
    Well, what happens when they start pouring out of that state into other surrounding states?

    With that type of humongous population, you can't just hold this one state as an isolated petri dish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  20. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    The repeal of the 14th Amendment nullifies that codified section and would require Congress to do something about the inconsistencies in the laws.

    "The New Colossus" is a sonnet that American poet Emma Lazarus (1849–1887) wrote in 1883 to raise money for the construction of a pedestal for the Statue of Liberty.[2] In 1903, the poem was engraved on a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal's lower level."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus
     

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