Impeachment does NOT require a crime

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by HereWeGoAgain, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    In fact, abuse of power was a serious concern. But lawyers can argue all day about what the framers intended. However, that isn't necessary.

    https://constitutionus.com/

    If the Constitution read "shall be removed from Office ONLY on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors...

    Or impeachment shall be limited to high crimes... or some variation of that, then it would clearly be limiting. But it specifically is not limiting. It only states that they must be removed for high crimes and misdemeanors. On that there is no option. It specifically does not set crimes as the minimum standard. It sets crimes, bribery and such as an absolute, irrefutable standard.

    For all the bs out there, this is unavoidably, logically obvious if you just read what it says.

    The trump white house is lying. And any lawyer arguing that the Constitution limits impeachment to ....high crimes and misdemeanors, is lying. The Constitution clearly, unavoidably, specifically does not limit impeachment only to crimes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  2. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, yeah, anyone who disagrees with your interpretation is lying. The framers wanted impeachment to be hard and rare. What you just described means it can become a normal means of an opposition party to obstruct, resist, and undermine any president they so choose.
     
  3. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned Donor

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    Just ask one of Trump's lawyers?

    In 1998 when he appeared on CNN’s “Larry King Live” Dershowitz said, "It certainly doesn't have to be a crime if you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty, you don't need a technical crime.”

    Case closed.
     
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  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    No, it is logically irrefutable: It does not limit impeachment to crimes.

    I don't need a lawyer to know that with absolute certainty. It isn't an opinion. It is a fact. It is logically undeniable.

    Is English a second language for you? Do you understand the words?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  5. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    OK Schiff, if you say so.
     
  6. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Please cite a Republican or anyone claiming that impeachment requires a statutory or other named crime, especially an attorney saying that. I'm sincere in asking and haven't seen any claims to the effect.

    What I have seen is lots of claims that an impeachment not based on a specific crime of the same import as treason or bribery is very weak and likely unworkably vague, both substantively and Constitutionally. This is obviously a very different argument than "impeachment requires a named crime."

    Looking forward to all the armchair lawyering that is going to emerge over the coming week or two. Funfun.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  7. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does...what does high crimes and misdemeanors mean? LOL!
     
  8. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Constitution does not say a lot of things, but that does not mean you can just do anything you want. Clearly the intent is crimes and misdemeanors.
     
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    It should
     
  10. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    Trump did not do that and is no danger whatsoever to our union.

    China spilling dirt is not a danger in any way shape or form, nor is it if Russia or Ukraine or anyone else does it.

    It's only a danger if someone in our government is bribed to so as to allow foreign influence over government functions.
     
  11. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Even if impeachment didn't require a crime, it would be a good idea to have a crime if you wanted a conviction in the trial that happens in the senate after an impeachment has been completed in the house.
     
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  12. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Abuse of Power is not defined anywhere and is not in any statute.

    I don't know how you read stuff but the Constitution does not say Treason, Bribery, other high Crimes and Misdemeanors, or anything else congress can dream up. It was written very purposefully and consciously the way it is.
     
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  13. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    You do know that the issue has been hashed-out to the point of academic death on this board ever since the corrupt Dem Party leadership declared that they WOULD impeach Trump for something . . . for anything? They proved that they can impeach him for spitting on the sidewalk . . . which essentially they have indeed done and while those are the same politicians who cheered while Obama urinated all over this nation. But the political Left played a game and Trump is fighting back. Now the political Left is offended?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    it is hard and rare, and Trump accomplished getting impeached
     
  15. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    "Donald J. Trump has directed the unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of subpoenas issued by the House of Representatives pursuant to its “sole Power of Impeachment”. President Trump has abused the powers of the Presidency in a manner offensive to, and subversive of, the Constitution, in that:

    The House of Representatives has engaged in an impeachment inquiry focused on President Trump’s corrupt solicitation of the Government of Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 United States Presidential election. As part of this impeachment inquiry, the Committees undertaking the investigation served subpoenas seeking documents and testimony deemed vital to the inquiry from various Executive Branch agencies and offices, and current and former officials.

    In response, without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices, and officials not to comply with those subpoenas. President Trump thus interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, and assumed to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the “sole Power of Impeachment” vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives."
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    even Trump's own lawyers agreed with this before they represented Trump

     
  17. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    It ain't meant for baby **** either.
    You'll learn the hard way
     
  18. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    So it shouldn’t be used in a case of consensual sex between adults related to a civil suit?

    you better tell the Trump Defense team and his Senate supporters because many of them took part in that
     
  19. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Impeachment long yesterday ago, and yesterday's gone.

    Trial today in the senate.
     
  20. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    Trump’s lawyers shouldn’t be allowed to use bogus legal arguments on impeachment
    "The argument that only criminal offenses are impeachable has died a thousand deaths in the writings of all the experts on the subject, but it staggers on like a vengeful zombie. In fact, there is no evidence that the phrase “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” was understood in the 1780s to mean indictable crimes.

    On the contrary, with virtually no federal criminal law in place when the Constitution was written in 1787, any such understanding would have been inconceivable. Moreover, on July 20, 1787, Edmund Randolph, Virginia’s governor, urged the inclusion of an impeachment power specifically because the “Executive will have great opportunitys of abusing his power.” Even more famously, Alexander Hamilton in Federalist 65 defined “high crimes and misdemeanors” as “those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...llowed-use-bogus-legal-arguments-impeachment/
     
  21. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Making establishment political hacks hate you that much is an accomplishment. The American people support President Trump. There is much hatred among the people of establishment politicians, globalist and liberal progressives.
     
  22. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regardless of the intent of the framers, I would tend to fall into the camp that for all practical purposes, the bar for impeachment is whatever a majority of the house says it is. If the house were to rule that jaywalking is impeachable, they most certainly have that right. However, that mindset also applies to the Senate. If a majority of the Senate says that whatever the house claims to be impeachable is not in fact impeachable, they too can label the charges as frivolous, and rule to summarily dismiss those charges. In both cases, it is a political, rather than a legal determination.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump asked a foreign government to go after his political opponent while holding back funds and offering a meeting if they did so - yep, that will upset people
     
  24. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    Ridiculous.
     
  25. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL....I see you once again making YOUR typical "compelling argument".
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020

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