In your own words, please define non-partisan politics....

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by nopartisanbull, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Since the last 15 years, I’ve created numerous threads/posted in several forums.

    What I/most of us have generally witnessed;

    2 partisan groups, constantly at each other’s throats.

    Two types of responses;

    a. In an effort to discredit

    or,

    b. in an effort to glorify

    And although a number of partisan people have admitted that their leader was in the wrong, said admission are quite rare.

    There is also an effort to equalize, for example;

    DEMS; Trump, the married man, had numerous affairs.

    REPUBS; So as Clinton!

    Well, folks, I’ve been an independent conservative since 2007, and regardless who sat in the Oval Offive, impartially, I’ve pinpointed numerous negativities, however, in the minds of partisan people, I was offending.

    Thus, in your own words, define non-partisan politics....if there is such a thing;
     
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  2. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    No such thing. Some folks pretend to be nonpartisan but that is about it.
     
  3. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    If we define politics as it relates to the governance of a country - rather than the pathway to power within that country - it would be easier for people to be non partisan. They would be focused on problems and solutions rather than assigning blame. So I guess that would be my definition - a focus on the well being of the country rather than who is in power over it.
     
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  4. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not partisan. My views are related to which solution gives the max freedom to the people. Sometimes that is the right, and something it is the left. Most of the time it is neither. Ron Paul was the last person in Congress who matched my views closely.

    The parties take turns being loony and chaotic, or more organized and clear.

    I think the people who don't believe that the center exists, are so far in their chosen direction, that they can't imagine anyone else might not have such extreme views.
     
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  5. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    To me, someone who is non-partisan is someone who calls out BOTH sides and has no blind allegiance to EITHER side.
     
  6. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The list for power is what is driving hyperpartisanship.
     
  7. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In other words, divided we are, divided we will be.

    There’s a small segment of the population who have been chanting; Enough is enough.......a visible and active third party, long overdue. Said party’s slogan;

    “Let’s be reasonable”.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Partisan: supporting a given political position or set of principals and policies and being willing to defend those in public life who espouse and support them. That would mean regardless if you political views you are to some degree a partisan.
    If you're hunting perfect you're in the wrong universe.
     
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  9. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    I was once a Ron Paul mercenary during the Bush’s years, and back, only a handful of conservatives were totally against Uncle Sam Mortgage Corp.

    If you were part of this group, WE WERE RIGHT!

    However, back then, we were gagged by both parties, and by the administration.

    Remember?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  10. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. The hypocrisy is stunning. Someone has to have Olympic level of mental gymnastics skills to call X a problem when the other team does it, but praise X when their team does it. It happens here, on this forum, numerous times a day. Both teams do this.

    Indeed. I voted Ross Perot. He blew it. We would have changed course of our Leviathan if he hadn't wussed out. Once he lost, the two parties colluded to ensure nobody like him would ever get through again. Sick bastards.
     
  11. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    And it's quite enjoyable watching these hypocrites flip out when I call them on their hypocrisy.
     
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  12. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Partisanship is not what someone believes it is what someone does. Partisans are unwilling to accept anything that doesn't fit their beliefs. Unless partisans have a great deal of power they get little done. Non partisanship is the art of compromise and negotiation where parties are willing to get some of what they want by allowing some things that others may want. Progress is easier here if people are willing to play the game. We now have ultrapartisanship where power brokers are not only unwilling to accept anything that doesn't fit their belief and it has become important to spew vitriol and try to destroy those who believe differently than they do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  13. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Both statements bears repeating
     
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  14. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    I like you term; “ultrapartisanship

    Beleif; We must protect/defend the President’s integrity at all times, even when he has been rationally and intellectually proven wrong.

    IMO, said beleif is a sickness/cancer, and ultrapartisanship means; Stage 4, thus, no longer curable.
     
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  15. Plasticman

    Plasticman Member

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    I agree. Compromise is the way to make progress. I never understood how politicians can stand in front of a podium and say "I will not compromise" and the audience cheers. What they're saying is they prefer petty arguments and stagnation over actual solutions.
     
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  16. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Partisanship in itself is not a problem. Partisanship just means that people like to take sides. That cannot and should not be prevented. For example, if you show people who are not football fans a football game, they will pick sides as to which team they support, mostly for no good reasons and while not knowing anything about the teams, except maybe which uniform colors they prefer.

    What is the problem is today's ultra-partisanship. What this means is that people are not just picking sides, they also assume only the best intentions for their side, and they attribute the worst intentions to the other side. A prime example is the constant bickering on here about the other side being violent. The truth is that only a very small fraction on either side is violent. That does not prevent those posters to extrapolating: One lefty violent = All lefties are violent. And so deteriorates the political discourse and increase divisions.

    We have to come back to the point where the political opposition is not seen as the mortal enemy, who's goal is to eliminate the country, but rather as country men who just have a slightly different opinion about what is the best direction of the country. Unfortunately, with today's social media spreading false attacks on the political opposition without inhibition and with lots of financial backing, I don't see how we can dig ourselves a way out of this hole.
     
  17. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    “I don’t like raising taxes, but sometimes, they are necessary”

    Who quoted the above?

    Was it Reagan or Bush Sr.?

    I think it was Reagan.......who raised taxes at the pump.

    However, today, if we were to raise taxes to finance a mega-infrastructure plan, that’s a big NO NO.....Why?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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  18. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing a documentary on the building of the Golden Gate Bridge and its financing. It was basically a mega effort based on donations by many people in SF, including many business people. They knew that the bridge would increase business in the city, thus, they didn't mind providing financial help building the bridge, because the future reward was going to be great. For the greater good!

    Today, saying "for the greater good" seems to be a bad phrase. Everyone seems to be in it for "me, me, me". That includes Dems too, who want their pet projects financed by the government.

    The truth is, we are all in it together. Without cooperation, we'd still be hiding in the trees from predators. As population numbers rise, cooperation needs a government, and cannot be on a purely voluntary basis, which works in small communities.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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  19. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I've thought more about this and realize that the vast majority of our 'discussions' here (and I include myself) are about individual leaders versus parties. And that's where, I think, we lose our way. When we tie ourselves to the leader of the party - be it Trump or Obama - rather than the policies of the party, we have lost our way. It becomes more about hero worship, and that doesn't allow for objective or clear thinking.
     
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  20. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good to me.
     
  21. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    I once studied our military procurement process and contracts. From what I remember, we have approx. 300 major contractors, thousands of sub-contractors, and thousands of sub-subs.

    Thus, the domino effect of increasing military spending, by let’s say $100 billion, the list of who may end up getting a piece of said spending is freaken huge.

    Also, in reference to increasing military spending, Republicans have long chanted; Good economy!

    Now, if we were to raise taxes for the construction of 5 aircraft carriers, total cost; $65 billion over 10 years.

    The math; According to our previous Treasurers, raising the top tax rate from 36% to 39% would generate $650 billion over 10 years, average $65 billion annually. Therefore, a one-time 3% surtax would cover the cost of 5 aircraft carriers, or a surtax spread over 10 years.

    Q; How many citizens would end up paying more taxes;

    A; According to the IRS, approx. 500,000

    Average tax increase; $65B/500K = $130,000, over 10 years, $13,000

    Economic effect;

    How many Major Contractors, Subs, Sub-subs, and 4th parties, would end up getting a piece of said $65 billion Aircraft Carrier mega-project?

    Let’s also assume that $1 spent on said Carriers would generate $1.50

    And according to several sites, $1billion in military spending creates approx. 10,000 jobs, X 65 = 650,000 jobs

    Q; How many of said 500,000 who SADLY had to pay more taxes would end getting more, or about the same, or a portion of what they’ve paid?

    Last question; Who’s generally against raising taxes to fund mega-projects?

    Well folks, I once was an interim Chamber of Commerce President, and my answer is; Generally NOT CoC members.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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