Innocent Madoff investors must pay back profits, court rules

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    SNIP
    Investors who profited from Bernard Madoff’s massive Ponzi scheme even though they knew nothing of it must still pay back their profits, an appeals court decided Thursday.

    Madoff customers who received millions of dollars more than their original investments fought in court to hang on to their profits, arguing through their lawyers that they had receive the payouts in good faith and that too much time had passed to let Picard recover the money.

    A three-judge panel of the 2nd Circuit concluded, however, that the investors were not entitled to “fictitious” profits that actually was money belonging to other customers.

    It noted that the investors were permitted to retain the principal of their investments.
    ENDSNIP

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/innocent-madoff-investors-must-pay-220640780.html

    Thought this was fascinating.... My original thought was innocent investors shouldn't be 'punished', but on 2nd thought, a lot of other people lost a lot of money via Madoff and this will help balance the scales, since Madoff himself is in no position to make good here...

    Hard to believe cases like this are still making their way through our snails-pace judicial system as well. As the lawyers pointed out, a lot of time has gone by.

    I imagine if any money does exchange hands, I hope these people can get on some sort of payment plan. Also, you have to figure that those that did make Madoff profits made additional profits off of that money elsewhere.

    Good or bad decision here?
     
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  2. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good decision although I'm sure the innocent investors don't agree. I'm actually impressed.
     
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  3. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even though they didn't know, I suppose it can be considered stolen money. At least they didn't lose anything.
     
  4. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    Man that would suck. I hope my investment guy isn’t making me money via crimes.
     
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  5. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    Having money you had for years, taken away, probably feels like you lost something!
     
  6. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We have the same investment guy... didn't you ever wonder why you are getting 4% and I'm getting 14%??

    :)
     
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  7. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Our judicial system is great for shysters, I mean lawyers. That is my observation on the above. Next life I am going to reincarnate as a Lawyer or a Dentist.
     
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  8. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It must be painful. I look at it like stolen goods. Even if you did not know it was stolen, its not right to keep it. It sounds like a fair outcome to me as long as the money goes back to the victims.
     
  9. MissingMayor

    MissingMayor Well-Known Member

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    Nobody investing with Madoff was "innocent". They all knew something shady was going on, but just didn't care as long as they got paid.
     
  10. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Really? How would they know that? It's obvious now, but how much are you really going to question getting great returns from your investment guy??

    If prosecutors could prove anybody knew about what he was doing and profiting, there are laws against that... I bet Madoff was given the option of flipping on folks for reduced time as well... If he did flip, his current 150 year sentence was a pretty bad job of that...

    I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise... However, I'll be the first to admit I know very little about the entire thing...
     
  11. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    I was happy to be making anything!
     
  12. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Considering several hundred people in my city, some of them quite the pillars, are convicted felons simply for having invested in an investment club that turned out to be a ponzi scheme, I suppose it could be worse for them. Every single person was prosecuted--cops, doctors, little old ladies on social security. Only the organizers went to prison though..
     
  13. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm a tad confused... hundreds were prosecuted and are now felons, but few went to prison?? Was everybody else just given probation and what were the actual charges against the non-organizers...

    That was the point I was trying to make in post #10.... If they could have prosecuted some of these "innocent" Madoff investors, I'm sure they had to at least consider it, for the possible deterrent factor...
     
  14. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    good decision. there was no actual profit. it was fake. it was money stolen from victims and given others. give the money back
     
  15. MissingMayor

    MissingMayor Well-Known Member

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    It was a guy you meet at parties promising 20% returns on investments. Nobody asked what investments. I bet they all thought it was insider information he was trading on. The kind of crime that rich guys get away with and screws over the little guy.

    Sort of like people who buy stereo equipment out of the back of a van.
     
  16. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    They were given probation and lost their investments and profits.
     
  17. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Good.

    Here's a link I found to the ruling/opinion of the Court.

    https://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisi...f-4318-8dc6-8cc63231f6b4/3/doc/19-429_opn.pdf

    Being barely a casual observer of law and the courts I'm not sure but it looks like a substantial number of defendants did not appeal the original verdict authorizing repayment of the funds.

    I'm a bit curious how it is that these folks actually came out ahead.

    EMANUEL GETTINGER, SOUTH FERRY BUILDING COMPANY, ABRAHAM WOLFSON and
    ZEV WOLFSON, UNITED CONGREGATIONS MESORA, SOUTH FERRY #2 LP, TURTLE
    CAY PARTNERS, COLDBROOK ASSOCIATES PARTNERSHIP, individually and in its
    capacity as general partner of TURTLE CAY PARTNERS, THE ESTATE OF MARIANNE
    LOWREY, JAMES LOWREY, in his capacity as general partner of TURTLE CAY
    PARTNERS, personal representative of the ESTATE OF MARIANNE LOWREY, trustee
    for MARIANNE B. LOWREY TRUST, and SUCCESSOR PARTNER COLDBROOK
    ASSOCIATES PARTNER, AARON WOLFSON,
    Defendants-Appellants,

    ABRAHAM ADEFF, GOLDI APPELGRAD, SIMCHA APPELGRAD, DAVID G. AVIV, B.F. &
    W. REALTY COMPANY, MIRIAM BEREN, ZELDA ELBAUM, RAZEL FASKOWITZ, ROSLYN
    GETTINGER, MORRIS GOLDSTEIN, SAMUEL GOLDSTEIN, MR. ISRAEL GROSSMAN,
    KALMAN HALPERN, ZEVI HARRIS, JOSEPH KATZ, BESSIE KAUFMAN, DAVID
    KAUFMAN, A. TRUST, A.N. TRUST, A.O.N. TRUST, AA. TRUST, AARON TRUST,
    ABRAHAM TRUST, ABRAHAM N. TRUST, AL. TRUST, ALISA TRUST,
    Defendants

    On a related note,

    Mike Milken having almost single-handedly caused the SnL "crises" is free today with a reported net worth of $3.7B
     
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  18. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah, I'm confused by this as well.

    Unless of course someone finally started prosecuting Amway and thereby depriving Denny's of its 11pm coffee crowd.

    Please post a link or share the name of the case if possible.
     

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