International sports bar

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Montegriffo, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    chris155au likes this.
  2. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So, scrimmage - scrummage are you seeing the derivation yet?
     
  3. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh, I re-found the article I used to try and persuade a sceptical Canadian friend that the British invented ice hockey.
    https://thehockeywriters.com/who-invented-hockey/
    [​IMG]
    A day on the ice in a 17th century Dutch painting.

    The Encyclopaedia Britannica claims it was a cross between the Native American game of lacrosse and the Irish game of hurling but their dates come after the first games played in Britain and Holland.
    https://www.britannica.com/sports/ice-hockey

    It's a controversial topic and I personally wouldn't bring it up in a Canadian bar. :hiding:
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
    Pants and chris155au like this.
  4. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    33,803
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps a silly question to ask a Brit, but is it football, or soccer? Given that you appear to be somewhat of a sport historian, your answer may differ to most of your fellow countrymen.
     
  5. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Soccer comes from association football. That's the official name.
    It's just football over here but Americans say soccer to save confusion with their game where they rarely put foot to ball.
    Brits always say American football and ice hockey rather than just hockey 'cos that's played on grass with a proper ball here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
    chris155au likes this.
  6. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Rugby is officially Rugby Football Union to give it it's full name or RFU for short.
     
  7. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    33,803
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, that's what I thought you'd say. Although soccer really is the only legitimate code of FOOTball. So it's no wonder Brits think that 'soccer' is a fraudulent name.

    Just like Australians say soccer to save confusion with their games where they rarely put foot to ball! Rugby and Australian Rules Football, which are very often referred to as football, or footie.

    No field hockey in the US?
     
  8. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    33,803
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well Rugby is also Rugby League isn't it?
     
  9. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think we consider soccer to be a fraudulent name, we're just in the habit of calling it football.
    Pretty sure they do play field hockey. It's not as big a game as ice hockey though so they make the field distinction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  10. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We used to get a bit of Aussie Rules coverage here but I've not seen it on TV for years now.
    I never quite got all the rules.
    Looks like a great game but dangerous AF.
     
    chris155au likes this.
  11. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I suppose so. As a former Union player I don't really recognise it as a proper game. :wink:
    It's bigger than Union over there isn't it?
     
    Ronald Hillman likes this.
  12. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The original game of football goes back to at least the 13th century.
    Very little resemblance to today's game though.
    It was played between rival villages with an inflated pigs bladder and the idea was to get the ''ball' into the oppositions market square or village centre. There was no limit to how many people you had on each side and just about the only rule was no murdering.
    It was so popular that Edward I actually banned it because it was getting in the way of men's compulsory archery practice.

    It's still played in one place, I forget the name, and you can find it on You Tube.
    It just looks like a massive stalemate with the occasional punch up though and takes all day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
    chris155au likes this.
  13. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    33,803
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not quite as dangerous as American Football.
     
  14. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    33,803
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, it's bigger.
     
  15. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Italians still play a very similar game as well but theirs isn't as old. Only goes back to the 17th century I think.
     
  16. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ashbourne.


    I've never heard that bit about it being played with a severed head. I don't think that's true.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  17. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    33,803
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Similar game to what?
     
  19. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Medieval football.
     
  20. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Florentine football. 16th century game.
    Played in a much smaller area with a lot fewer people but you can see the similarities.
     
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    33,803
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which is similar to what?
     
  22. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    3,914
    Likes Received:
    1,782
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I wish you'd brought it up here, first; I just posted about that in my Covid-thread:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ita-death-rates.586048/page-6#post-1072518768

    Here is the portion, relevant to your question:

    And yes, it is called the line of scrimmage which, to me, still seems a major difference from the scrum. I guess I will have to trot off to wikipedia, to get a better idea of how this works. Without a line of scrimmage, there can be no concept of, "offsides." Also, if you are saying that the rugby equivalent of a quarterback, in this case, has to fight his way out through a circle of defenders-- much as a newly-hatched praying mantis, attempting to escape its gestational shelter, through an invading army of ants-- I would not analogize the two. The American version much more mimics the way two opposing military forces, "line-up," facing each other from their separate camps (which is probably why the Soviets used to study our Football to try to gain insight into the American military mindset, philosophy). <END SNIP>

    So, the short answer would be, "no." There does appear to be an etiological connection between the two words, I'll grant you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  23. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    47,507
    Likes Received:
    39,605
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Ancient Greeks invented the Olympics and some of their sporting activities still survive to this day including Discus, Javelin, Wrestling and Running. The concept of long distance running got it's name from the Greek city of Marathon and is based upon the runner who ran to bring the news of the invasion.

    The origins of Motorsports began in France as I recall and was sponsored by a Paris newspaper. The term Grand Prix is French and originated with horse racing before being adopted by automobile racing. It was the Australians that built the first race track for automobiles The longest race was from Paris to Peking in China.
     
  24. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    OK then.
    In rugby the scrumage is a set piece way of restarting the game after a minor infraction of the rules such as a knock on (a fumble, effectively a forward pass to yourself).
    The scrum is awarded to the side not guilty of the infraction. The equivalent of the QB the scrum half puts the ball into the scrum and then retrieves it when it comes out the rear of the scrum and passes it to his backs. The scrum half is the link between the forwards and the backs. The scrum is theoretically contested but almost always the ball comes out in favour of the side putting the ball in.
    So as I see it, the linesmen are the equivalent of the forwards in a scrum as they are the large members of the team trying to disrupt/aid the QB/scrumhalf from passing the ball to the more slender running backs/backs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  25. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,830
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In rugby the forwards are numbered 1-8, the scrum half is the number 9, the backs are numbers 10-15 with the centre half number 10 being the player who usually receives the ball from the scrum half and decides which way to pass (throw) the ball along the backs or kick forward for a possible territorial advantage. The kick is the only forward pass allowed but the receiver must be behind the kicker at the point he kicks the ball. The kicker can also put players in front of him onside by running forward past them.
     

Share This Page