Iowa class BB, they don't build them like that today

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by APACHERAT, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    OK...we are misunderstanding each other here so I will detail this out better.

    I am well aware that the SR-72 will not be flying till 2028 to 2031.

    But what you are not aware of is that there does exist and they are DEPLOYED....a number of both Robotic Stealth Recon. Drones.....Robotic Attack Drones and within 1 year the first Stealth Fully Autonomous FIGHTER/ATTACK drone will be flying.....as well as Stealth Robotic Drone TANKERS.

    As I have said I grew up on a massive Western Massachusetts based SAC Base which had the tarmac LOADED with B-52's which themselves were loaded with nukes...and in the morning a B-52 Wing fully loaded would fly from that base up over the Pole and turn around and come back home and then another wing would take off and do the same thing twice a day and every day for YEARS!!

    My Mom was the...."CIVILIAN".....individual who kept track of the Nukes and she was at that time using a COVER as the Base General's Secretary.

    This base is so big it was made an emergency alternate landing strip for the Space Shuttle.

    Anyways....many years ago there was a program called....HAVE BLUE.....and this was run at the Groom Lake Facility.

    HAVE BLUE turned into the F-117.

    We were flying F-117's almost a DECADE before they were even made public and Jimmy Carter in an attempt to gain votes as Reagan was attacking him as letting the U.S. Military degrade caused Carter to do something that many people including myself dislike him for doing to this day!!!

    Carter went on National TV and told the world that the USAF had developed and was flying STEALTH AIRCRAFT!!!

    Carter made this public announcement back in 1979!!!

    But as I grew up and lived near that base.....I used to see on dark moonless nights what we all saw as TRIANGLES....which were F-117's.....flying in and out of this base BACK IN 1977!!!

    What very few people know is we were flying them right over areas of the Soviet Union....and although it is said they were being used for Recon....I have been informed they were also carrying Nukes.

    My point is.....we have things flying now that people do not know about.

    As far as Computation.....before Networked Cray's were used but a single F-22 has the computational power of many Networked Crays.

    I just used this as an example as I did not want to get into too complex of an issue as far as how we use a massive amount of data all coming into many central systems.....which is the basis for much of the U.S. Military's Integrated service Branch Targeting.

    But now.....5000 and 10,000 Dual Quantum Systems will be installed especially when the FEL's begin to be deployed and perhaps even as soon as the new upgraded SM-3's are available along with the new Anti-Sea Skimmer Hypersonic Kinetic Kill Sea Level Following Intereptors.

    They have been stalling as far as developing many new systems as they are basing the next 100 years of weapons development and appropriations and planning on the success of the FEL, MEB and PBW's.

    AboveAlpha
     
  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    George Noory knows. :roflol:
     
  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    So does Art Bell. Although his reporting of the space ship following the Hale-Bopp Comet thoroughly trashed his reputation.

    There are good reasons why in these threads I only seriously discuss equipment that is either in service at this time, or in the first deployment stage only. I do not consider equipment that is still in the early proof of concept phase or development phase as "existing", because as far as the military is concerned, they do not exist. Equipment like this comes and goes all the time, often times vanishing and never to be heard from again.

    Just look at the M247 Sergeant York or MEADS as examples of this. Both are proven and functioning weapon systems, but neither was (or as of yet) been adopted by the military for field use. So trying to talk about a future war with either of these two weapon systems is a fail. As compared to say discussing THAAD or Centurion in a future combat, both of which are fielded and deployed to military units for operation in the field.
     
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Art Bell, :roflol:

    When did he first appear as a syndicated radio program, the late 1970's ? It was a different kind of program then he thought the government was after him and moved to Pahrump, Nv. near the Chicken Ranch brothel.

    As for George Noory, from a source who actually knows Noory, he acknowledges that the majority of his guest are real loons but plays along with them knowing that many of his audience actually believe what the loons are saying.
     
  5. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Remind me why Art Bell was so stupid as to report on the whole space ship behind the comet thing?? LOL!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    If you insist. And I am sure some in here do not know what I am talking about.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. polgara

    polgara Member Past Donor

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    Greetings, APACHERAT! :clapping:

    So good to see you again! :thumbsup:. Happy New Year to you and yours!
     
  8. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I remember that, I was in highschool and it happened not too far away. They kept their shoes on so they could walk around the spaceships or something.
     
  9. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey P! Imagine seeing you here. I KNOW they didn't ban you over at the other place. :smile:
     
  10. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey Polgara, I miss you.

    Happy News Years and a belated merry Christmas.
     
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The Heaven's Gate cult had been around for decades. They were largely harmless, believing that humans were planted on Earth by aliens, and eventually after death would be called back by the UFOs to crew them. However, after Artie Bell started to talk about the UFO following the Hale-Bopp Comet, old Marshall Applewhite (founder and leader of the cult) grabbed onto this and said it was the ultimate vessel that would take the True Believers to the "Next Level".

    And since the only way to reach the ship was to cast asaide their temporary bodies constrained to the planet earth, they choose to release their spirits so they could travel to the spaceship by suicide.

    Art Bell had been claiming for months before it arrived that it was an artificial construct, and had something following it. And that groups like NASA and JPL knew this was true but was covering it up for their own reasons. These claims were lached onto by Applewhite, and he simply changed them into his god like aliens.

    And since then he has bounced back and forth from the show he created many times, each time arriving for a few months to a year or two before leaving again under bizarre circumstances. He has also had several other unrelated shows, the most recent ended last month after he made claims people were trying to kill him. Not the first time he made such claims prior to retiring (again).

    I think the only reason anybody now hires him to host a show is in the hopes that something spectacular will happen, resulting in an ending like Barry Champlain.
     
  12. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting, didn't know that about him.
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    This has been an interesting sidebar, but horribly off-topic. But it does go to show some of the reasons why I do not take Conspiracy Theorists seriously. I only deal in the here and now, not the what if's and what may be's at some future date that may never come to pass.
     
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I am going to try and bring this back to the topic, not sure if these were really addressed or not, but I will do it again if not.

    The biggest mistake you are making is that you are assuming that a modern 21st century "Battleship" would be built based on the abilities and needs of the mid 20th century. And that is a gross failure. But let me address each of these one at a time.

    "An entire flotilla"? This is actually the way our Navy works at almost all times. Other then submarines pretty much all ships operate as part of a flotilla. Be they aircraft carriers or amphibious assets. Each ship has it's own requirements and abilities for offense and defense, so all use other ships to help round these out. If anything, this is why the US has had such success with it's Navy.

    The biggest failures in the 20th century with Battleships was not the actual failure of the ships themselves, but Germany and Japan largely sending them out without such a flotilla, allowing them to be ganged up on and picked off by a numerically superior but tactically inferior group of forces. Yes, airplanes can sink big ships. But if you have enough support ships to cut down these aircraft, that is much less likely.

    Crew is another thing. Unquestionably the most expensive ship to operate is not actually the Battleship (when we did use them), but the Carrier. Even a 70 year old Battleship would have a crew less then half of what a modern Carrier would require. And because it is also capable of offensive operations in and of itself (a carrier itself can not conduct offensive operations), it requires much less in the needs of support ships.

    Of course, if I was given a voice I would say that a modern Battleship would be used where it most logically belongs. As the flagship of an Amphibious task force. Not as it was done in the 1980's, as a kind of Tomahawk Missile platform to make a skeleton strike force.

    Yea, actually we do. Because we know it is true. Just look at the USS Nevada, a pre-WWI era Battleship. It participated in 2 World Wars. Beached and burning after the attack on Pearl Harbor, it was repaired and returned to service, and participated in a great many battles in the Pacific.

    It was then used as a target ship in Operation Crossroads. Where it was struck by 2 atomic blasts, and heavily damaged. The photo below is taken after the Baker test. So this is after she was nuked twice.

    [​IMG]

    She was now highly radiated, so she was towed back to Hawaii for decommissioning. Once completed she was towed back to sea where the USS Iowa sunk her as gunnery practice. Even this did not sink her, and it required arial torpedoes to finally sink her.

    2 atomic blasts, multiple 16" shells from the USS Iowa, and torpedoes. And from a ship that would today be over 100 years old.
     
  15. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    No....I remember the whole Heaven's Gate thing and that crazy SOB with the silver hair and his eye's open so wide as if they were plates!!! LOL!!!

    I was asking WHY Art Bell was so stupid as to report on this?

    AboveAlpha
     
  16. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I brought up this other issue awhile back.

    For those who are or have been in the Navy then you are probably aware of what is known as the U.S. Navy's version of Area 51.

    A while back a few things came out that since I have not heard a single word or rumor about but as it was made public for a short time I can discuss it.

    It was about the development of what can only be described as an UNDERWATER FIGHTER/ATTACK VESSEL that was capable of incredible underwater velocities.

    It supposedly used a type of water jet without moving parts and also was capable of generating by a method unsubscribed an AIR BUBBLE around the craft very much in the same way an air bubble surrounds an SLBM as it quickly travels within the bubble.....breaches the ocean surface at such a rate rate of speed it springs into the air high enough so that the bottom of the SLBM has a great deal of clearance with the ocean surface where then it's rocket engine ignites.

    Now in the SLBM's case the SLBM is carried upward by the surrounding air bubble.

    But in this case an air bubble is somehow continually being generated around the high velocity underwater fighter/attack craft.

    Velocities of over 100 Knots have been thrown around in conversation and it is theoretically possible.

    As well some method of limiting the buildup of a forward to the crafts cone pressure wave was said to be developed.

    I have several ideas on how they did this but I will not post about it here.

    Anyways.....it was also said a new type of High Velocity Torpedo was also developed using this same tech.

    A Torpedo that was said to be capable of easily penetrating an Iowa Class Battleships under the water line armor.


    Anyone else remember this press release?

    AboveAlpha
     
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Are 51 and more talk about projects that are decades away from being fielded if ever. This is what I mean when I say I only deal in the here and now, not future fantasy projects.

    To put it in perspective, President Carter largely abandoned the B1 bomber project, based upon the early results of the F-117 fighter program. Yet, it was almost a decade before this fighter was ever introduced, and almost 15 years before it was ever used in combat. In reality, the F-117 has made little difference in combat, and the fighters and bombers that were in combat for over a decade before it was introduced are still in use, and the F-117 sits in warehouses, out of service.

    And by continuing what you say, if such a magic torpedo can sink any ship, then why have any ships ever again? If they are sunk so easily, then just go ahead and disband the entire Navy, carriers and all. Because obviously nothing can stand against such a weapon.
     
  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The Have Blue Program was up and running in late 1975.....the XST...Experimental Survivable Testbed.

    By 1977 we were flying over the Soviet Union.

    Now I was just interested to see if anyone had heard anything I was posting about as far as what was being developed and tested out of AUTEC.

    If you don't know...just say so.

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What would this look like?

    It would need to be capable of operating in shallow waters and deep.

    Top of the line radar, sonar, comms, etc

    More significant armor than we see on modern ships.

    Have significant anti air, anti ship, and anti sub capabilities, close in to extended ranges, at least for defense, if not offense.

    A Command and control station capable of coordinating the task force.

    Turret mounted guided artillery, the LRAP can hit to 100 nautical miles (unknown how it would do against surface vessels but its CEP is 50 yards. The excalibur round and copperhead rounds could also be fired, with lesser range but perhaps higher accuracy. This would serve as precision air support essentially.

    It should have an ample supply of guided missiles to extend this range ever further.

    It should have air, surface, and submerged drone capability.

    Helicopter capability.

    Definitive medical capabilities for the task force (surgery capable)

    It should be highly survivable.

    That would be an impressive ship, but a pricey one.
     
  20. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some interesting and pertinent reading. Currently trying to hunt down the Marines most recent NSFS requirements.
    http://www.gao.gov/archive/1999/ns99225.pdf
    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0539r.pdf

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, rail gun and laser compatible for future upgrades. :)
     
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    No, we were not flying them over the Soviet Union in 1977.

    Sorry, I am done with this, and your attempts to derail every thread with crazy conspiracy theories.
     
  22. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but cut that short.

    We do not need a "Swiss Army Knife" kind of ship. Any attempt to build what you are talking about would be doomed to fail, guaranteed.

    And do not forget, it is not going out by itself. So what you are insisting exist in a single ship is already spread among many ships. And part of this is the natural military love for redundency. So if one ship is damaged, it's ability is not entirely lost.

    Now for shallow water, why? As long as it can pull to within a mile of shore, that would be enough. No need for going closer then that, the Iowa class did that all the time.

    For the ship, I have suggested a platform many times, but will do so again. The USS Alaska, with an update of the 1947 plan to convert it into a Guided Missile Cruiser. This conversion would have left her with 6 12" guns, and had the rear deck converted to missile launchers. And while the BB lovers do not like this, the gun design of the Alaska class was superior to that of the Iowa class.

    They were safer, faster to reload, and more accurate then the 16" guns of the BBs. And there is no reason that the LRLAP (not LRAP) can not be increased from 6.1" to 12". And if they develop an LRLAP for this ship, then it really has no reason to go into shallow water.

    And remember, the best use for a ship like this is as part of an amphibious task force. A flotilla that will already have it's own "baby aircraft carriers" in the Wasp and America class amphibious assault ships. Landing pad to alow helicopters to land should be included, but no need for a hangar for helicopters, just a place so parts and personnel can be transfered when at sea.
     
  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The Naval Gunfire requirement of the Marine Corps is the main reason I believe such a ship is needed.

    Far to many when they think of Battleships think of their classic role, as in "Crossing the T" and launching off broadsides against other Capitol Ships. However, that kind of role went obsolete over 70 years ago. And no, not as much because of aircraft, but because of the advent of missiles. There was simply no more need to "supersize" the ships in order to survive long enough and get close enough to start pounding away at each other. And with the rapid reload rate of missiles, they did not have to spend prolonged lengths of time in "close combat" to attack the other. So agility became more important then larger ships with big guns and heavy armor.

    But far to many have forgotten that the biggest role for Battleships in WWII was in assisting amphibious operations. Without these ships, we may not have been able to win the War in the Pacific. Imagine how much worse the casualties from Tarawa to Okinawa would have been without the gunfire from all of the battleships. And all 4 Iowa class ships were of paramount importance in the Korean War.
     
  24. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An Annotated Bibliography
    of
    NAVAL GUNFIRE SUPPORT -> http://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivi...of Naval Gunfire Support PCN 19000250300.pdf
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    And what evidence to you have to the contrary?

    We were not flying F-117 over the Soviet Union in 1977.

    But we were flying a version of the XST over it.

    AboveAlpha
     

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