Iowa class BB, they don't build them like that today

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by APACHERAT, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    There's no might to it.
     
  2. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Might?

    There currently is not adversarial navy that would require a shaped charged torpedo of the size and class necessary to sink an Iowa Class and it would take 4 to 6 of these to do it.

    The U.S. Navy is much more interested in Direct Energy Weapons, Rail Guns and Electromagnetic Stealth.

    Unless some military built Iowas Class BB's...which will not happen...the Mark 50 is as far as we will go go.


    AboveAlpha
     
  3. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Why would you want to? Like I've mentioned numerous times you haven't a clue. Shape charges don't work well under water because it's not a compressible medium. Air works fine. There's a trick to it where you can, but I doubt you even begin to understand the principle much less the math involved.
     
  4. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    OK...that fact you have made this idiotic statement shows me how far behind the curve you are.

    Anyone else what to explain to him how they work underwater?

    AboveAlpha
     
  5. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    DE Technologies has been the lead designer for the offensive warhead variant of the Navy’s next generation small torpedo class, the Compact Very Light Weight Torpedo (CVLWT) platform.
    A defensive variant of this platform is currently being fielded for aircraft carrier defense against incoming torpedoes with the Surface Ship Torpedo Defense (SSTD) System.

    The offensive warhead variant has been under development in the Navy’s Future Naval Capabilities (FNC) program with the program name, Compact Rapid Attack Weapon (CRAW), for the past several years. DET’s technical objective is the development of a forward, offensive, directed-energy shaped-charge cartridge for the CRAW warhead which will defeat of anti-submarine warfare (ASW) targets-of-interest at multiple engagements and obliquities. Shaped charges are the technology of choice for penetration of deep, “hard” targets, and shaped charge warheads have been used in numerous applications against both underwater and surface threats.

    A single warhead configuration that satisfies the offensive (ASW) and defensive (torpedo defense) mission requirements would enable development of a multi-mission CVLWT.\\

    LINK....http://www.detk.com/recent-projects/underwater-warheads/

    AboveAlpha

    - - - Updated - - -

    P.S.....we could develop a Shaped Charge Torpedo that could sink an Iowa Class in a matter of a few months!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  6. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    You really are in so much over your head here you can't even see up. You can't even put together a coherent sentence to explain yourself.
     
  7. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Read the LINK I posted.

    And LEARN!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  8. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    I'm kinda done here. Go back to your comic books.
     
  9. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    So...I provide a viable lined source and you say this?

    Unreal.

    Pathetic.

    AboveAlpha
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Torpedoes work on the very fact that water does not compress. And they largely work on the same principal as the depth charge.

    When a detonation occurs on or near a hull, the pressure is given directly against the hull. This often causes seams to rupture and pressure damage to the hull and the surrounding area. This in fact magnifies the damage, in a way that is nothing like that of a shape charge.

    Generally, shape charges leave rather small holes, and rely on the penetration to do the damage. The real destruction is on the molten metal being injected inside of the target. In a torpedo, the water magnifies the damage, resulting on penetration orders of magnitude larger then the explosion itself.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB44/PearlHarborDamageReport/

    This is the damage on the USS California, BB-44 during the Pearl Harbor attack. This huge damage from an aircraft torpedo is because water does not compress, so everything aimed at the ship hits the ship.
     
  11. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    In WWII the British used a form of Water reactant Chemical Munition that if placed under an enemy ship in a large container and then timers were set it opened up the container to allow sea water in and when enough sea water contacted this chemical it detonated with greater explosive force than TNT.....it's not RDX...something else.

    Anyways....the explosive force under the enemy ship and the Hydrodynamic Geometric displacement and then return of the sea water to the displacement of the water at the point of the detonation under the enemy ship would cause the ship to literally crack in half.

    Now according to the report I posted and this does not take into account modern U.S. Navy Anti-Submarine warfare......4 to 6 Shaped Charged Torpedo's.....and you and I both know how they work....as when a shaped charged munition impacts say...a Tank....usually Molten Copper will burn through the armor at a small point or hole in the tanks armor and the velocity of the molten copper enters the tank and by sheer Kinetic Force will kill everyone inside like liquid bullets.

    The report I listed would use 4 to 6 Shaped Charge Torpedo's and considering a Torpedo is a HELL of a lot bigger than a Shaped Charged RPG or Tank Round.....the Torpedo would detonate upon contact with the Battleship....melt through just about any depth or armor and if 4 to 6 were properly targeting the Iowa Class Battleship....it WOULD SINK!

    Even a BATTLESHIP.....if it were to pass over a MINE that is of such a high explosive nature to displace enough water directly under the Battleship creating in effect a VACUUM which would draw water and the ship back toward this vacuum....WOULD BE CAPABLE OF SNAPPING THE PROVERBIAL SPIN of an Iowa Class Battleship.

    AboveAlpha
     
  12. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    AMATOL!!!!

    That's it.....AMATOL!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Amatol is a highly explosive material made from a mixture of TNT and ammonium nitrate.[1] The British name originates from the words ammonium and toluene (a raw material of TNT). Similar mixtures (1 part dinitronaphthalene and 7 parts ammonium nitrate) were known as Schneiderite in France. Amatol was used extensively during World War I and World War II, typically as an explosive in military weapons such as aircraft bombs, shells, depth charges, and naval mines.[2] It was eventually replaced with alternative explosives such as composition B, torpex, and tritonal.


    Amatol exploits synergy between TNT and ammonium nitrate. TNT has higher explosive velocity and brisance, but is deficient in oxygen. Oxygen deficiency causes black smoke residue[3] from a pure TNT explosion. The oxygen surplus of ammonium nitrate increases the energy release of TNT during detonation. Depending on the ratio of ingredients used, amatol leaves a residue of white or grey smoke after detonation. Amatol has a lower explosive velocity and correspondingly lower brisance than TNT but is cheaper to make.

    Amatol allowed supplies of TNT to be expanded considerably, with little reduction in the destructive power of the final product, so long as the amount of TNT in the mixture did not fall below 60%. Mixtures containing as little as 20% TNT were for less demanding uses.

    TNT is 50% deficient in oxygen. Amatol is oxygen balanced and is therefore more effective than pure TNT when exploding underground or underwater. RDX also has a negative oxygen balance.

    Relatively unsophisticated cannery equipment can be adapted to amatol production. TNT is gently heated with steam or hot water until it melts, acquiring the physical characteristics of a syrup. Then the correct weight ratio of powdered ammonium nitrate is added and mixed in. Whilst this mixture is still in a molten state, it is poured into empty bomb casings and allowed to cool and solidify. However, the lowest grades of amatol could not be produced by casting molten TNT. Instead, flaked TNT was thoroughly mixed with powdered ammonium nitrate and then compressed or extruded.[2]

    The colour of amatol ranges from off-white to slightly yellow or pinkish brown, depending on the mixture used and remains soft for long periods of storage. It is also hygroscopic, which complicates long-term storage.[4] To prevent moisture problems, amatol charges were coated with a thin layer of pure molten TNT or alternatively bitumen. Long-term storage was rare during wars because ammunition charged with amatol were generally used soon after manufacture.

    Amatol should not be stored in containers made from copper or brass, as it can form unstable compounds sensitive to vibration.[4] Pressed, it is relatively insensitive but may be detonated by severe impact, whereas when cast, it is extremely insensitive. Primary explosives such as mercury fulminate were often used as a detonator, in combination with an explosive booster charge such as tetryl.

    The explosive charges hidden in HMS Campbeltown during the St. Nazaire Raid of 1942 contained amatol. The British X class midget submarines which planted explosive charges beneath the German battleship Tirpitz in September 1943 carried two "saddle charges" containing four tons of amatol. Warheads for the German V-1 flying bomb and V-2 rockets also contained amatol.

    A derivative of amatol is amatex, consisting of 51% ammonium nitrate, 40% TNT, and 9% RDX.

    Well I guess it did have some RDX in it.

    LINK....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amatol

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I thought this might be interesting for some of you.



    The final link in the screen was the French contribution, our gallant ship, FMS LA GRANDIÈRE, a Tropical Type Sloop of some 2,000 tons (2,900 fc) armed with three x 5.5" (138mm) guns in single mountings, plus eleven 20mm oerlikons and four 40mm bofors AA, depth charges and AS weapons.

    MOUNTS BAY in company with LA GRANDIÈRE had previously been engaged on convoy escort duties and when in harbour, cemented this working relationship by the exchange of rum, wine, gauloises and hospitality.

    Red wine mixed with rum produced a 'tot' of 200% octane rating, more suited to aircraft fuel than social drinking but even so very much appreciated...

    The group would have much work to do with russian made floating mines in the area. It was really a concern.

    On Tuesday 19th September at 16.30 MOUNTS BAYs ASDIC team reported a contact in position latitude 36°56'6" north and longitude 126°06' west, identified as a possible submarine.

    With hands at action stations and AS teams closed up the first attack commenced at 17.05 and a full pattern of depth charges dropped each containing 410 lbs (185 kg) of "amatol". In the vicinity was the USS MISSOURI BB63 who signalled (scott lights, radio silence was ordered since September 10th...) asking why a black pennent was being flow at the yard arm.

    On being told of a possible submarine threat all ahead flank speed was rung down to the engine room and the MISSOURIs stern quickly disappeared over the horizon.

    LINK...http://france-coree.pagespro-orange.fr/eurokorvet/uk/minewarfare_korea.htm

    AboveAlpha
     
  15. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    I know this, unfortunately alpha does not.
     
  16. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    What is you say I do not know????

    I am a Master Diver and am very well versed in Fluid and Hydrodynamics.

    The Shaped Charge Torpedo's are the reports WEAPON OF CHOICE if they were needed to sink an Iowa Class Battleship!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  17. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea of how shape charges work except for a minimal understanding and absolutely none in how they work in water. NONE.
     
  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    So the fact I am aware of the explosively formed penetrator, the linear shaped charge and the Tandum Warhead shaped charge constructs mean I know nothing right??

    There are also ways to use multiple explosive charges to SHAPE water Kintetic energy transfer in overlapping fields to break upon hulls.

    You want to discuss something then discuss.

    But don't tell me I no nothing about something you have yet to even discuss one word about!

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    You just googled that up and have no idea of what you're talking about.
     
  20. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    UNREAL!!!

    I have been discussing Shaped Charged Munitions on this forum for over 3 YEARS!!!

    Mostly discussing how the Iranian Qud's Force using Diplomatic Paperwork were transporting Shaped Charged Munitions for use by the Madi Army for IED's.

    And discussing Shaped Charge RPG's and Tank Round Penetrators vs. the Sabot Silver Bullet.

    BUT YOU....you don't want to talk.....all you want to do is cover the fact you picked the wrong person to get in an argument over this!!!

    Do you know we have a Mark 50 Shaped Charge Torpedo in stock and it's primary use is for anti-submarine use?

    Just admit it and move on!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  21. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    You're right, I have picked the wrong person to talk to, because you don't know what you're talking about. The torpedo is designed to penetrate a subs pressure hull. A tiny hole at depth will do nicely. What you don't know is just how this particular warhead works, especially its behavior in water.
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Let me ask you this....what is the other use for a Torpedo with a shaped charge besides directing usually molten copper at a very high rate of velocity through a ships hull?

    I will give you a clue....it has NOTHING to do with the explosive charge shaped and directed for hull penetration.

    If you can't answer this....you are way below my knowledge level on this subject.

    AboveAlpha
     
  23. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    You're just fooling yourself. A principle called standoff is necessary for the "carrot" to develop fully. You don't even know what that is. At contact penetration is very poor because the jet cannot fully develop. The interface medium must also be compressible. Water is not. Industrial shaped charges don't need a fully functioning carrot. There's a way to make it work underwater, but you have no idea of how. I'll leave it at that.
     
  24. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I believe advances in fusion can help enable ground effect mobility on sea going vessels.
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    I don't know huh?

    An Air Bubble can be generated between the Torpedo's Penetrator Point and the Ships Hull....as well as a tube can be ejected and used.

    NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION AS I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE!!!

    AboveAlpha
     

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