Iran mocks WWII Holocaust, prepares another

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by SamSkwamch, May 17, 2016.

  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Like I said, it must be refreshing when you recognize truth.

    Since I never claimed otherwise and it is a documented reality, I hardly think that counts as a "admission". Its merely a statement of facts, and in this rare instance we can both agree that such behaviour is despicable. OTOH, it in no way implies or indicates that the holocaust never happened, or that it was a hoax. that rather incredible leap of logic is strictly limited to denialists.




    Only in your distorted vision of what is going on in the world.

    gotta luv the "hide morality behind legality" line. The sheer irony of denialists who hide their "morality" behind lies, misrepresentations, gross misinterpretations is delicious.

    Nope not even close.



    What question? the fact that this bogus argument has been destroyed hundreds of times over, but of course you are way too intellectually lazy to investigate such outrageous claims made on the sites of the usual suspects.

    As to your tangential nonsense about Israel, nothing like reinforcing the jew hating image of denialism. Not that throwing strawmen and trash that is entirely non- germane to the subect at hand isn't a well worn tactic, but such regurgitation is obviously puerile.


    Is that all you got? nevermind, of course it is.


    Yes, it renders my credibility about a billion times greater than yours, especially when you post such obvious rubbish. You do persist in the most stubborn fashion in the face of so many irrefutable facts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But I don't hate jews. I'm just being "honest" about them.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,663
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    (I took the liberty of ignoring the irrelevant rethorics)

    Good! - Say it when when something is objectively bllsht.., even when it's on your side. The truth doesn't make you any weaker. If it does, then you are fighting the wrong war.

    I didn't say I don't believe in the Holocaust - that is, the intention of genocide based on "race" the Nazis did. The six million number, however, is absolute crap, and here is why:

    [video=youtube;Dda-0Q_XUhk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk[/video]

    You don't like the goy's accent? Here is one more suited for you:

    http://ourjewishagenda.weebly.com/the-shoah.html

    Rubbish my arse: I am not the one who created these newspapers. They do exist; you can check out for them in the proper archives. If you can't recognize them for the proofs they are, that's because you are voluntarly closing your eyes tighter than your fists.

    Now tell me with a straight face that you believe in the six millions figure.
     
  3. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,730
    Likes Received:
    8,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You asked me for some facts so I post a link that states "....or plays down the genocide .... is a crime......". Saying the number is less than 6m is playing down the genocide. You then state "from your source" then you post sentences that are not from the source but just your words.That is not honest, just your interpolation. There have been people in this thread state that saying the number was not as high as 6m is holocaust denial
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, NOBODY has ever been charged with "downplaying" because they might question the number 6 million. OTOH, people have been charged when they claim a much lower number in CONJUNCTION with denial of the "final solution" and gassing.

    Might want to actually want to research the various cases that have been brought to court so you can actually comprehend the criteria for the application of those laws, but then again that would trash your contention.
     
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I have no reason to doubt the 6 million figure since it seems to be agreed by literally thousands of historians and researchers. OTOH, given that back in the day census figures, population estimates etc., were hardly as accurate as today in the digital age. Numbers that one gets from contemporary newspapers of the time can hardly be held up as absolute facts.

    Perhaps this "official" statement from USHMM regarding the actual number might provide some enlightenment:


    Live and learn.

    BTW - your "goy voice" comment is yet another indication of jew hate. Seems you can't help yourself. Of course your SS avatar kinda says it all.
     
  6. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113

    The clear implication is that this is a government sponsored event
    But is it?

     
  7. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,677
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It is not a numbers game of whether three or six millions Jews deid in the National Socialist run labour camps during WWII. It is a claim that there was a determined extermination policy. Holocaust belivers would want the World to beleive there was such a policy & will till this day call anyone an "Holocaust denier" & a "racist" or "fascist" that stands against that claim. They will take legal action against them for saying anything other that their legay claim. Then you have the likes of Steven Spielberg, that are free & well funded to promote their beliefs against the German people that they are all "NAZIS". We have in history three national socialist films that are ati-Jewish, we have 100s of anti-German films from Jews that want us to believe their Holocaust hyth.


    The myth of the Jewish Holocaust is backed up by nothing but propoganda & absolutely no facts at all. Prove me wrong if you can!

    There is plenty of evidence that the mass gassing of prisoners of Auschwitz never happened. The biggest of these all are the British Enigma decrypts from Auschwitz of the comings & goings of that labour camp. There NEVER was any mass gassing of Jewish people & no mass crematoriums. No huge piles of coking coal to burn the bodies, no evidence of thos bodies & the scientific profe that the numbers of crematorium bodies simply could not be desposed of.

    This is not a confortable truth for so many many people & it is so easy to shout "rascist" or "ant-semite". Of course it is easy to feel that & shout down the people that say these thing. Because you have been lied to for many many decades & it is hard to believe anything else than what you have been told.

    I myself belived in the Holocast for ~15years until I did my research. I recommend you do the same!
     
    Jazz likes this.
  8. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,663
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah - that vague estimate really did put me back into my place, doesn't it.

    I am not the one who invented the "not us" term.

    As for my avatar, that's Led Zeppelin's bassist John Paul Jones on the sleeve of their second opus:

    ledzeppelin2-560x560.jpg

    Looks like yet another indication of martyr obsession. Seems you can't help yourself.

    :cool:
     
  9. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It ain't so vague. In fact, you might not have noticed that the estimate relies on a rather extensive array of sources.

    But feel free to believe in the incredibly sloppy and narrow "findings" of non-academic schmucks with an agenda.


    Huh?

    Oh, so that isn't a tottenkopf SS hat?
     
  10. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,663
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean the historical newspapers article with the recurring 6 million numbers? Well call me a doubtful goy.

    This "goy" term - it doesn't come from my culture.

    The german "tottenkopf" insigna is much older than WWII. I think the image pictures a WWI german zeppelin crew (with members of the band added) - but don't take it from my authority.
     
  11. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I guess you think that everything you read in the newspapers (particularly back in the day) must of course be accurate, notwithstanding their limited access to informational services to provide statistical information of that ilk.

    I do agree with you that the 6 million number is only an estimate. apart from some rather questionable news reports do you actually have any evidence to suggest that the methodology and source documents utilized to arrive at this estimate were falsified, flawed, exaggerated, or plain wrong? I thought not.


    Yet, you claim you are a jew. Oh my.


    that makes sense. I apologize for accusing you of having an SS avatar.
     
  12. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,114
    Likes Received:
    1,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Nazi scum! Nazi pig!

    Btw., have you ever heard of the "Jewish Avengers" who went on killing sprees in Germany after the war?
     
  13. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,663
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You know what? The six millions number doesn't itch me as much as the fact that it is practically enforced by law.

    If there wasn't anything remotely jewish in the point in question, are you sure you would support it? The very principle of a "state truth" disgusts me no matter who the actors would be. History is for historians to judge, not lawyers and politicians.

    As for me; It doesn't change much if it's one or six millions - even half a million would be horrible.

    Huh? No, I am a French-Canadian of catholic background.

    Thanks for the elegance. Maybe I misjudged you as well.
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    No, I haven't but nothing like that would surprise me based on personal accounts of the German WW 2 survivors I knew, Gen. Patton's diary, & reading the following book "An Eye for an Eye" etc


    Among the books I've mentioned that recount specifically Jewish post WW 2 atrocities are:

    “An Eye for an Eye” (Review)
    http://www.amazon.com/An-Eye-Sought-Revenge-Holocaust/dp/0967569109
    EXCERPT OF REVIEW: It became a best-seller in Europe but was so shunned in America that it also became, in the words of New York Magazine, "The Book They Dare Not Review."

    Since then, both 60 Minutes and The New York Times have corroborated what Sack wrote: that at the end of World War II, thousands of Jews sought revenge for the Holocaust. They set up 1,255 concentration camps for German civilians -- German men, women, children and babies. There they beat, whipped, tortured and murdered the Germans.”CONTINUED

    AND:


    I've read some of Gen. Patton's Diary in which he was disgusted with the way innocent German civilians were thrown from their homes by the Zionist / Bolsheviks who followed his Army around for "Free Land" & easy plunder.

    Additionally, Eisenhower was despised by many of his men by the way he ensured the extermination of 1.7 German P.O.W.s even though there was ample food & medicine.

    That ugly example of censored Victor atrocities is recounted in "Other Losses"


    “OTHER LOSSES”
    By: James Bacque
    https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/james-bacque/other-losses/
    EXCERPT “ Canadian writer Bacque's shocking and controversial account of American mistreatment of four million German WW II POWs. Centering on American idol Dwight D. Eisenhower, Bacque's indictment strikes to the heart of the American dream, charging us with much the same kind of brutality that so incenses Americans when practiced by foreigners--allowing POWs to die by the tens of thousands from disease and starvation.

    In a skillfully organized, meticulously documented brief (86 pages of notes and appendices), Bacque charges Eisenhower not with neglect but with setting policy- -and charges subsequent authorities with a methodical cover-up, including destruction of evidence.
    The narrative is strongly detailed, beginning with an old Frenchman, accompanied by Bacque, opening an ancient, dusty box to find--nothing: missing evidence. From there we have a real-life thriller, complete with security forces bullying aged witnesses.

    Surprises are nonstop, beginning with a damning introduction by respected military historian Ernest F. Fisher, Jr., who speaks of Eisenhower's ``fierce and obsessive hatred of...all things German.'' There follows a jolting indictment of high American figures, starting at the top.

    The tone is set when Churchill walks out of a Big Three meeting as Roosevelt jokes with Stalin (recent perpetrator of the notorious Katyn Forest massacre) about exterminating prisoners.
    The point is driven home a thousand ways, most effectively in the knowledgeable analysis of Eisenhower's management style, which allowed subordinates to carry out policy with little paper to back them up.
    The general who sends military aircraft to pick up oranges for breakfast while prisoners are starving is especially memorable. Even more so is the repeated British refusal to countenance the US policy in principle and detail. Explosive and deeply iconoclastic, this book is sure to enrage many. Refutations without research as painstaking as Bacque's will lack credence.” CONTINUED


    an additional Excerpt from the book relates why many of Eisenhower's men despised him.:

    EXCERPT "Another Veteran is Martin Brech of Mahopac, New York, a semi-retired professor of philosophy at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, NY. In 1945, Brech was an 18 year old Private First Class in Company C of the 14th Infantry, assigned as a guard and interpreter at the Eisenhower Death Camp at Andernach, along the Rhine River. He stated for SPOTLIGHT, February 12, 1990:
    (*)
    "My protests (regarding treatment of the German DEF'S) were met with hostility or indifference, and when I threw our ample rations to them over the barbed wire. I was threatened, making it clear that it was our deliberate policy not to adequately feed them."
    (*)
    "When they caught me throwing C- Rations over the fence, they threatened me with imprisonment. One Captain told me that he would shoot me if he saw me again tossing food to the Germans ... Some of the men were really only boys 13 years of age...Some of the prisoners were old men drafted by Hitler in his last ditch stand ... I understand that average weight of the prisoners at Andernach was 90 pounds" CONTINUED


    I remember sharing a hospital room with 3 other Veterans at our local V.A. hospital. One of them was a WW 2 Vet. who served under "Ike" & despised Eisenhower so much that he refused to have any coin or stamp with Eisenhower's picture on it.

    Don't expect to find anything about "Jewish Avengers" in the Hasbara / C.A.M.E.R.A. controlled Wikipedia [1]

    Thanks







    [1] “Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups”
    Two Israeli groups set up training courses in Wikipedia editing with aims to 'show the other side' over borders and culture”
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/18/wikipedia-editing-zionist-groups


    [2] “pro-Israel group’s plan to rewrite history on Wikipedia”
    https://electronicintifada.net/cont...el-groups-plan-rewrite-history-wikipedia/7472
     
  15. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,730
    Likes Received:
    8,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When I asked why is it worse if the figure was 3 million, which was the figure that I grew up with, there were several posters who stated that anyone who believes that the figure is closer to 3 million must be a Holocaust denier.
     
  16. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,663
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It wasn't enough that history got politicized, now it gets judicialized as well. That's a dangerous, totalitarian trend. We're not far from the Ministry of Truth here. Those imprisonned for Holocaust denial of any kind are political prisoners.

    And also, the emperor is naked.
     
  17. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
     
  18. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,663
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Theorically.

    Practically thought, a good number of "revisionists" get sentenced not for "denying the Holocaust" but for "inciting racial hatred", "challenging crimes against humanity", "racial libel" and "racial discrimination", but their real "crime" was to question the Holocaust à la baisse one way or another.

    I am at the point where I don't know who to trust. I'd rather trust in my own researches... and keep it quiet if their result does not ressemble Big Brother's.

    That's the sad times we live in.

    :alcoholic:
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nazis question the Holocaust so as to make Nazism acceptable again, so they can then kill all Jews.
     
  20. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, because they did incite racial hatred. They did challenge the notion of such a horrendous crime against humanity. They did engage in racial libel.

    You have it bass ackwards. It wasn't that they "questioned" the holocaust, they denied it occurred on the strength of evidence generated by amateurs and charlatans that has been (for the most part) completely rebutted by qualified historians. A rather substantive difference.


    If you trust your own research, then perhaps you should expand the scope of said research to include the "other side's" rather extensive and definitive rebuttal of the denialist fantasy narrative. If your research only covers sites like IHR and CODOH, then naturally your perception of holocaust would be biased considering you would be completely ignorant of the massive amount of specific rebuttals to their nonsense which is readily available from any number of sites. You'd then have a broader knowledge base with which to "trust your research", instead of merely regurgitating the garbage of denialism.
     
  21. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,677
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The "Auscwitz trial" of the SS men was carried out in Kraków, Poland from April to November 1947. The Polish authorities had all the documentation to hand & eye witnesses to examine & give evidence.

    http://auschwitz.org/en/history/the...rom-the-auschwitz-concentration-camp-garrison

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/auschwitz-convictions-have-been-few-and-far-between-1.3042220

    https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/Law-Reports_Vol-7.pdf

    The verdict against the men was passed for the murder of some 300,000 people of all faiths & nationalities at Auschwitz. Some of these men were executed for their crimes against innocent people.

    300,000 died from many different causes.
     

Share This Page