Iran Shoots Down US Drone

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by flyboy56, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Your previous claim was even if the plane was not over Iran it was looking at Iran so they had a right to shoot it down. I pointed out satellites must be a legitimate targets too under that thesis and you failed to address that in a straight forward fashion. I believe I've made my point here.
     
  2. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It should have been obvious this guy was not second guessing what Trump would do as he was degrading him for calling off war.

    He was talking about what the intent of those who were arranging war with Iraq - sorry this time Iran, would probably do, what he himself would do.

    It is in the video above by Kim Iverson. The Senators name is Lindsey Graham
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  3. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sarcastic? Moi?
     
  4. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Even though I'm an Aussie I usually go along with the POTUS decisions, supporting the big picture of world peace.
    However, what dont we know?
    - was the drone a sacrifice?
    - was it full of its usual expensive equipment?
    - was it really in international waters ?(Iranians have the debris )
    - did Trump call off the raids for other reasons than saving 150 lives?
    - is Trumps actions a result of the forthcoming election? Or a result of his long telephone call to Putin?
     
  5. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    There is more nuance then some simplictic comparison in the real world.

    Would the US shoot down spy drones a mile from our waters?
     
  6. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    No
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is also true that pigs don't fly :)
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Running around claiming "creative book-keeping" while denying and ignoring reality is not an argument for much. 2009 is on the previous administration - not Obama.
     
  9. JIMV

    JIMV Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you think a destroyed aircraft falls straight down? If it was flying in one direction and is hit it continues in that direction until it hits the ground and that is often miles from the original hit occurred.
     
  10. JIMV

    JIMV Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or, they fired at the target they could hit and had no idea what it was until after the attack.
     
  11. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    No, it would depend on many factors such as momentum and angle of impact. For example if target and missile had same speed, same mass and impacted head on head, both objects will fall straight down (other factors are involved too).
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  12. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    I saw a picture released by the US. The plane had a wing blown off.

    Edit: Just checked. Supposedly Iran released the picture.


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    An image of the drone, according to Iran’s state-run IRNA news agency. Photo: IRNA
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  13. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    That depends on whether the drone immediately fell apart or if it was just bumped by the missile.
     
  14. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Let's assume the pictures of Iran with the drone parts are real. (We otherwise would have heard Trump laughing on twitter that them parts aint his) The drone was shot to pieces. So that makes it that it's unable to glide around. It probably wont drop straight down, true. But I'm not buying that the drone gets sucked towards the projectile that hit it "that much" that it ends up across the border when it was flying parallel to it.
     
  15. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I’m curious as to how Iranians got the drone wreckage so fast? This drone couldn’t go more than a few miles from the point where it was hit. If the wreckage that they show is real then I think the drone actually flew over the land mass or just a few miles off coast and Iranians and Americans don’t tell the truth - Iranians for embarrassment of allowing a drone so far into their territory and Americans for being able to claim that the drone was in the j yer national airspace.
     
  16. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    There are pictures around where the US claims their drone was shot down + where Iran claims they shot down the drone. It was all above the water. Maybe something like 20 miles off the coast. And of what I heard is that Iranian army has loads of speedboats, who got a massive machine gun and can shoot missiles. It's not particularly deep there. So a couple of boats and some divers and it's done in half a day I guess.

    It's "probably" of high national interest to get yours hand on a foreign piece of military hardware worth over a 100 million bucks. They could sell it to China.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  17. JIMV

    JIMV Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Missiles are not designed to HIT a target, just get close and explode
     
  18. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Obama's average GDP is figured just like every other president's and your attempt to change the rules just for him is a fail
     
  19. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    One of the purposes of a drone is to get shot down. The whole reason we use unmanned aircraft, is so we can put them in harm's way, and not lose a human life if they get shot down.

    Also, because Iran is so flat broke(thanks to Trump) the missle they shot was a bigger proportional loss to them, than the loss of the drone they shot down was to us.

    If a bum throws a $20 bottle of booze, and it smashes the window of a millionaire's Bentley, the bum is still the loser, because that twenty bucks cost the bum a lot more than the millionaire's window cost him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
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  20. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    The US certainly did sign such a deal along with 4 other countries. Nobody cares about your internal politics.The Republican congress never would have voted for it simply because it was Obama and they could never bring themselves around to cooperating with anything he did no matter how beneficial just because.....well, you know.

    A deal was still signed and endorsed by the security council. You reneged on it and your sanctions are illegal and a breach of international law:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/08/donald-trump-sanctions-iran-international-law
     
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  21. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    These weren't stealth plans, they could see them both clear as day on radar. This whole thing was a failed attempt to fabricate a CB.
     
  22. H.R.A.

    H.R.A. Member

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    Well, the most advanced US airplane has been targeted by Iran air defense system so more than 99% of the US air planes wont have any chance on Iran sky! and the US army is nothing without his air force!
     
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  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US was apparently trying a cyber attack on Iran for its proposed attack on Thursday to stop Iran being able to defend itself. No news as to whether this worked or not. Possibly real reason for cancellation?

    I had read before that this was a prime part of the US plan on Iran - cyber attack to stop defense.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ttack-on-iranian-rockets-and-missiles-reports
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  24. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

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    Now what YOu guys do not see, above all the conflict between the Democrats and the Republicans is that someone is just playing with YOu, and that playing is playing hard. Iran became a real threat to the stability of the world and if YOu do not eliminate that threat, America will loose its position... and that is not a talk about Coca-Cola, Whitney Houston and Mr. Spock.
    Iran shot down the drone - Iran did not admit they did that. They also shot down two tankers and did not admit to that either. What they did instead were meetings of the "ruby ellite" - few Iran guys in charge (with jihad on their mind). These guys were so hot about explaining to each other that they "cannot trust the USA" that they also deicided to mention that America, which is a falling monster, will start a war, but America won't be the one to finish it. Now if someone sees in all this a problem of a mindless turd US President - the person that sees the problem like this should be seen as a person that favors hostile forces to America and to the rest of the world.
    USA cannot just ignore the problem, because that was just a testing by the Iran. They did not do that for no reason and such attacks will probably continue in the future. Just that with a weakened position of the United States. If USA ignores this and Iran continues to conduct a nuclear arms project - Iran will sell that nuclear weaponry to all of te countries which are, or will be hostile to America. Why? Because Iran knows that when USA attacks Iran, Russia and China will say that this was a criminal act of the USA and the World War III will appear on the horizon.
    The Third World War, contrary to what could be observed, when the Russians carried out their military tests will have a fairly rapid and prosaic course. Like Hitler, he knew that he must first attack Poland and make the rest of the war from Poland - Putin knows it too. From here he attacked Ukraine first, to have easy access to Poland. According to many NATO regulations such a scenario has been considered for several decades and when Poland was joining NATO, Poland has been forbidden to develop certain industries, including the armaments industry. An attack on Poland could be connected with the deployment of biological and chemical weapons, and then in a few decisions and moments, the elimination of the local population. Poland's wealth and its advantageous geographical location (exactly in the center of Europe, with access to the sea, etc.) could contribute to the fact that the Russians would not risk losing conflict in their area. Germany and France are favorable to Russia, so if Russia were to come with China, Germany and France would join this alliance. The US is an armed tycoon with regard to shipping, so Russia would be interested in a passage to the ocean and would miss Spain only on the way (Portugal would not matter too much). So the only people who could really rebel would be the Spaniards and the British, but in the face of such a development of the situation there would be no real rebellion.
    It seems to me that this scenario and its threats are being considered by US policy makers. The problem is that if the US does not decide to move, it will lose its dominant position in the world. However, if the US were going to destroy military installations in Iran, it was a mistake. Iran's difficult economic situation and 50% inflation can be a great explanation for the necessity of selling nuclear arms. It is logical, therefore, that this conflict should not be exacerbated and only the armed ones should be demolished. Only this is the thinking of a man who must reckon with the fact that China and Russia on such a "fart of a mosquito" will respond with a huge fire of conflict and the threat of the Third World War. However, the problem is unresolved and it can not be "put under the carpet".
    The solution is to destroy all installations - of which Iran derives its financing, which is primarily a leader in the oil market - the destruction of all installations for oil extraction and sale. Will America suffer this? Well, it's necessary to show Iran and the rest of America's hostile world that America likes "games", but at the moment of "inflection of flame" the USA is a real BADASS. It is a reclusive strategy for retaliatory actions that only exacerbate conflict. As long as America's hostile world does not understand that the US is able to effectively defend itself - such incidents will happen more often and not only weaken the position of the US, but also threaten all Allies - means in fact the rest of the civilized world.
     
  25. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Trump has systematically removed all avenues of recourse afforded to Iran in opposition to sanctions that have devastated them. They had been ravaged for years under US sanctions, that's precisely what got them to the table to agree to the nuclear deal in the first place. The only option left for Iran now is a military one. Completely choking off an entire country and denying them trade with any other country is considered by many to be an act of war in itself. Iran was willing to give up their nuclear proliferation efforts in exchange for the removal of sanctions, and it had been working. Now, they have no other choice than to move forward with the enriching of uranium unless the nuclear deal continues as it was. Iran said it would not give European powers more time beyond July 8 to save its nuclear deal by shielding it from U.S. sanctions.

    Now Trump is backed into a corner and it's all his own creation. Russia and China are Iran's allies, as is Turkey, Syria and others. None of them want the U.S. messing up what had already been settled with the Iran nuclear deal in 2015. My best guess is that Trump will come up with some 'amazing, wonderful' new Iran nuclear deal that he will take all the credit for and it will merely be what had already existed but tweaked in some small ways. Trump will need a victory for his base if he wants to be re-election in 2020.
     
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