Iranian Nuclear Program

If the US/UN continues to be a dishonest broker in this region this problem is not going away.

 

I am in no way supporting any Israeli agenda but the facts remain...Iran could have legally developed nuclear weapons on it's own.

It did not have either the personal or the technology to do so on it's own so it LIED and signed the NPT with the full knowledge it would break that agreement.

Your argument is flawed.

AboveAlpha

 

One can but imagine the kind of economic and political sanction would have befallen Iran far sooner had she not signed the NPT treaty and then openly tried to develop these weapons independently. They were clearly aware of this and were buying time with this cynical expedient of signing. I'm not saying I agree with Iran doing this but I certainly understand why they had to. Israel of course had no such worries or political obstacles to contend with whilst developing hers. This is what I mean by the US/UN being dishonest brokers here.

 

Trying to ding USA for using nuclear weapons in WW II shows a complete lack of understanding of WW II history. First off, USA killed many more during the Tokyo Fire Bombings, which indicates that nuclear weapon bombing missions of that era were less deadly than carpet bombing entire cities with conventional weapons. Secondly, had USA not done this there would have been a long drawn out ground invasion of Japan that would have ended up with a lot more dead on both sides. And please remember that Japan only took a second nuke because they were too stupid to surrender after the first one.

You don't know much about weapons, do you? You don't need a ballistic missile capable of reaching space to bomb another country. All you need is a sailboat. Do you think a multi megaton bomb sitting in the belly of a 100' sloop that was detonated in the NY harbor a few hundred yards from shore would kill anyone? I'm thinking it would wipe out at least a quarter of NYC pretty instantly. And that's assuming the harbor master would even notice her at a few hundred meters out. How much weed comes into Miami via boat? I bet the harbor patrol doesn't catch a hundredth of the loads coming in. And I also read that USA only inspects 1 out of every 100 shipping containers. You could put a nuke on 3 or 4 vessels slated to reach USA the same day going after 3 or 4 different ports. One will get close prior to detonation. Boston, NY, New Orleans, San Francisco, etc. You'd take out one city at least.

 

That's unfairly gimping Jews. First of all, all of the Jews live in a little swath of land no bigger than Rhode Island and Connecticut. The muzzies own over 2.3 million square miles of land in the Middle East; roughly 80% the size of USA. So to protect herself she needs a heck of a lot more firepower than her enemies do. Secondly, if you add up all the countries that want her erased and total their armies; they have millions and millions more troops than Israel does. If Israel had 1.5 million square miles and the muzzies had 1.5 million square miles and both sides had the same population then I agree with you - no nukes needed. But when a country of only 8,000 square miles has to stand tall against a group of muzzie countries that total 2,300,000 square miles; you need an edge somehow.

 

Imagine a football game where each team can put whatever they want on the ground to get the ball. One one side, one team has 500 players and each player weighs 300 lbs. On the other side team two has 10 players and each weights in at 90 lbs. You are in charge of giving out gear for the oncoming massacre. A logical person would give the big team t-shirts and the little team suits of armor to even it up just a little bit. That's kind of the situation in Israel. Look at Israel's weapons and manpower, then compare it to Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, UAE, Jordan, Palestine, Turkey, Lebanon, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and Cyprus. Am I missing any other mostly-muzzie countries in the region? If one afternoon they pulled another stunt like when five or six of them ganged up and sneak attacked back in the 60's; Israel would need a sh*t-ton more than just the 50 or 75 nukes she may or may not actually have ready to go. How can she defend 8 thousand square miles when her enemies can go anywhere they want across 2.3 million square miles?

 

If the US is so concerned for Israels welfare why not guarantee its security with its nuclear umbrella much like it did with West Germany during the cold war. It takes away the potential threat (however remote it seems to us) that Israel would initiate an independent nuclear action on one or more of its neighbours. In terms of conventional forces Israel is far stronger relative to her neighbours today than she ever was so I dont really hold with the argument that she needs such weapons to defend herself.

 

That comes with strings. For USA to put her technology and trained troops on the ground to handle that technology; she wants something in return. Israel wants to be beholden to nobody, and I cannot blame her for her desire for independence. Her citizens counted on the Germans, the Poles, the Austrians, the French etc. to look out for her well being. That level of trust cost her 6.75 million lives. Now she wants to be 100% capable of depending on herself, and I don't blame her in the least. I love USA and view it as my promised land; but I would be the first to say we try and manipulate our friends and enemies like little puppets on strings. Not everyone wants to be a meat puppet.

And dude - you REALLY need to brush up on your math. Israel has 8M people. Egypt has 84M. Iran 77M. Turkey 76M. Iraq 35M. Saudi Arabia 30M. Yemen 25M. Syria 22M. UAE 9M. Jordan 7M. Palestine 5M. Lebanon 4M. Oman 4M. Add those all up. They have 100x as many people as Israel if they gang up like they did in the 1960s.

 

Well if the US holds to that kind of lopsided view then Iran will have nukes one day and I dont know how you feel about that but as a European a lot closer to the theater I am less than 'cool' about that prospect Perhaps instead of the greater good of Israel we should be trying to safeguard the greater good of humanity here because a nuclear exchange in this region would be economically catastrophic for much of the planet. Thats before we even count the human cost locally

 

I am just happy Iran voted in who they did as President.

Now the true POWER is held by the Iranian Old Religious Guard but when that little NUT JOB Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was in power he along with the Old Guard made the mistake of threatening to close the Strait of Hormuz...the worlds oil lifeline.

A combination of Iranian Nuclear aspirations with this threat caused a great deal of worrying to occur by the Iranian Navy.

Since it would be the Iranian Navy doing the DYING in the event they were ordered to close the Strait of Hormuz by the Old Guard as the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet based in Bahrain would have been sent in to destroy the Iranian Navy...attempts at communications between the Iranian Navy and the U.S. Navy were done and communication was covertly established.

What was agreed upon was in the event the Iranian Old Religious Guard sent orders to the Iranian Navy's Leadership to close the Strait of Hormuz...the Iranian Naval Leadership would REFUSE TO CARRY OUT THESE ORDERS and stand down.

This was preferable to carrying out such orders as the only end result would be the DEATH of the Iranian Navy and all personal.

In the event the Iranian Navy DID carry out such orders....the United States Military were to launch a campaign designed to destroy the entire Iranian Navy, Iranian Coastal Defenses, the Iranian Air Force and as well Tens of Thousands of U.S. Special Forces and Rangers were to be Air Dropped along with the 101st Airborne Division to secure all Iranian Nuclear sites.

Elements of the Iranian Democratic Movement were to gain assurances from the Iranian Army Leadership that the Iranian Army would not interfere with Air Dropped U.S. Forces securing the Nuclear sites and in return the U.S. Air Force would not target the Iranian Army Divisions.

However the Iranian Republican Guard Divisions were determined to be too loyal to the Old Religious Guard and these Republican Guard divisions were to be targeted and destroyed by large wings of USAF B-52's using new Smart Carpet Bombing Weapons designed to seek out and destroy personal and armor in a more precise method than usual Carpet Bombing methods in the past.

U.S. B-2 Stealth Bombers as well as F-22 Raptors were to carry and deliver Non-Nuclear EMP devices to both Large Armored Divisions and Command and Control as the B-2 can carry 8 to 16 Large EMP's and the F-22 can carry two small non-nuclear EMP's designed to render command and control inert. The larger non-nuclear EMP's carried by B-2's were for use in rendering ENTIRE ARMORED DIVISIONS USELESS.

The use of highly secret and Ultra-High Tech. Non-Nuclear EMP's in Iran was a decision based upon the U.S. Military's capability to render inert entire Iranian Army Divisions Inert or Useless and at the same time saving the lives of Hundreds of Thousands of Young Iranian Soldiers.

This ability to prevent mass numbers of deaths was essential for the U.S. Backed Iranian Democratic Movement to be able to be accepted as the new Iranian Leadership as if this movement was seen as being a U.S. puppet along with several hundred thousands of dead Iranian's...it would not be accepted by the Iranian People.

AboveAlpha

 

Bollocks!

These reprobate purchased nuclear arms from South Africa the bastion of freedom and held in power by England and America.
Something to do with apartheid and the mass killing of coloured people. Aye, bastions of democracy.

Regards
Highlander

 

Actually...although Israel had the people and technology to build a nuke...they didn't have enough fissile material.

This Nuclear Fuel was provided covertly to Israel by the CIA from the U.S. DOE Facility at Oak Ridge.

AboveAlpha

 

Years before this...... SA delivered atomic weapons to your Talmud nazi zionists.

Regards
Highlander

 

Do you get sexually aroused or something every time you say something stupid like they are... your Talmud nazi zionists?

I mean...REALLY?

AboveAlpha

 

Certainly not, but it would be interesting if you might answer any of the accusation I have steered in your direction.

Genocide, depleted uranium, assassinations stealing body parts and selling them, jailing people without trial for more than thirty years, any input? Well and reply that's relevant. To the topic?

Highlander

 

Although there have been mistakes made....we try very hard to keep civilian casualties as low as possible and we do this better than anyone in history.

Do you think the groups you advocate care what civilians might die if they could kill a U.S. Soldier?

HELL NO!

I have PERSONALLY SEEN both SUNNI and SHIITE gunman SPRAY with bullets ENTIRE MIDDAY ARAB CIVILIANS...Mothers, Fathers and LITTLE CHILDREN as these poor people were just walking in a square where an open market was set up with fruits, vegetables and other produce and food.

There were two American Soldiers attempting to help fix an electrical outlet that was built in to a metal poles light that lit up this square at night. The vendors had hooked in a heavy duty twist lock electric extension cord to this outlet that was 12 feet up this light pole. They used it to power a fridge and some strung lights for night time.

A vendors truck had driven under it to unload and the top of the box truck caught the low hanging electric cable and bent the twist lock to a point one of the three twist lock prongs was broken off and thus the vendors could not get electricity to power the fridge and lights.

Two GI's grabbed a few tools and were standing atop the Box Truck rewiring the cable directly to the wires in the pole as they took the outlet plate off.

They were up there a while and some Insurgent must have seen them way atop that truck and decided that they would be an easy target. Just as the two GI's finished and jumped down off the truck...I heard the unmistakable POPPING SOUND of an AK-47.

I turned around and pulled out my SIG 229 but did not fire because their were people and little kids...EVERYWHERE!

This SCUM BAG INSURGENT was just holding his finger on the trigger of that AK as it popped away on Full Auto!

He was waving the AK quickly back and forth like a TENNIS RACKET and people and children were going down all over the place.

The two GI's had gotten behind the front end of the truck and had their rifles pointed in the direction of the insurgent but they could fire either as there were at least a hundred people between them and the insurgent firing the AK.

IT WAS HORRIBLE! If you have never seen a persons body being shot....an AK round will go right through a person if the round velocity is not reduced by impacting bone or something like a bag of groceries a person might be holding.

From the exit point a SPRAY OF BLOOD MIST will burst out as the round exits and this mist will coat anyone near that person being shot like SPRAY PAINT.

I was desperate to get a clean shot off but one of the Marines was able to use the trucks hood as a means to balance the rifle and as he targeted the Insurgents HEAD rather than the insurgents center body mass as there were so many people and children around by targeting the insurgent higher he lowered the chances he might shoot a civilian running in front of his shot.

The Insurgents head snapped back with the rounds impact and that was the end.

This scum bag accounted for 9 dead, 28 wounded...18 of the critically....and 4 of the dead were children. 9 of the wounded were kids with 4 critical.

The insurgent was screaming...ALLAHU AKBAR!

AboveAlpha

 

Yes I've seen people shot.

But does the one and a half million Iraqis murdered because your military decided to create hell on earth through there own lies and deceit to your people, yet it was Iraqis that died in there hundreds of thousands.

Regards
Highlander

 

Although I personally think invading Iraq was a mistake....there is a lesson to be learned here.

The United States is not a country to be trifled with.

Since November 4th,1979...the beginning of the Iranian Hostage Crisis...I had seen a steady and growing lack of respect for the United States and United States Military which ended the day bin Laden was killed.

Iranian students embolden by the oust of the U.S. backed Shah...which I readily admit such backing was a mistake but was done as part of an overall comprehensive plan to contain the expansion of the Soviet Union...Iranian Students with the backing of the Iranian Religious Guard...took hostage 66 American Citizens holding 52 of them hostage for 444 days after storming the U.S. Embassy in Tehran.

President Jimmy Carter seeking a peaceful settlement and not getting one sent in the U.S. Military to rescue them which failed as 8 U.S. service men died in a crash of aircraft at a staging/landing area in the Iranian desert.

Ronald Reagan ran a successful campaign to win the Presidency limiting Carter to one term. Reagan made it CLEAR to the Iranian's that if the Hostages were not released by the day he was inaugurated...the United States would launch full scale military operations to rescue the Hostages and told the Ayatollah Khomeini that if the hostages were not released the United States would OBLITERATE IRAN.

Iran took Reagan's threats...VERY SERIOUSLY...and the day Reagan took office...the Iranian's released the Hostages.

Still this embolden Iran and other Middle Eastern Countries who were allies with the Soviet Union. Several times during the Reagan administration the United States Military was called upon to destroy Iranian ships, Oil Rigs and Aircraft.

As well the issue of the Palestinian's and Israel grew and the U.S. Congress made the mistake of not funding schools and educational institutions in Afghanistan after the U.S. supplied Mujahedin using High Tech. American Weapons such as the shoulder fired Stinger Anti-Aircraft Missile drove out the Invading Soviet Union....many Afghans today do not even know it was the U.S. that supplied and helped them defeat their enemy.

Then there were the events in Lebanon, Syria, Libya...etc...where the U.S. Military carried out limited actions.

Through out this time Arab and Iranian disrespect for the United States and the United States Military culminated with major wars in Iraq and Kuwait, Somali and Afghanistan where many, many Arabs died due to a miscalculation upon what exactly would be a U.S. Military response.

The United States is more than just what Russia and China are now calling a HYPERPOWER...as both feel the word...SUPERPOWER...is just not enough to describe this country. The U.S. is also the largest economy on Earth and the ENTIRE WORLD ECONOMY depends upon what happens in the U.S. Economy.

As example...China...the #2 Economy has a Gross National Product...GNP....of just over 6 Trillion Dollars. China is home to close to 1.7 BILLION PEOPLE.

The United States with a population just about 1/6th of China has a Gross National Product of 17.7 TRILLION DOLLARS. This U.S. GNP is almost 3 TIMES LARGER than China's GNP and the U.S. does this with just over 300 Million People compared to China's 6 Times greater number of people at 1.7 Billion.

As well the U.S. Military is so large and so vast with over 1000 U.S. Military Bases in just about every country on Earth.

The U.S. Navy is MASSIVE and holds the responsibility of protecting the worlds shipping and also has provided disaster relief for tsunami and earthquake victims all over the world.

The United States is the #1 Supplier of Food and Medical Aid. Without these food and medicine donations it is estimated that over 100 MILLION PEOPLE a year would starve or die of disease.

Arabs and Iranians have to come to understand that the United States is just TOO BIG AND TOO IMPORTANT TO BE SCREWING AROUND WITH. For a country to threaten the United States or it's allies is JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY and in my opinion...if you are going to walk up to a LION shouting and kicking sand at it while it lays in the Sun....you should not think that the LION is not going to rip your throat out.

AboveAlpha

 

What clap trap, do you honestly believe the propaganda spouted out by Hollywood and AIPAC?

The Iranians hated you because your country and the English government removed the democratically elected president and installed the shah as was done in Lydia and king iris.
Tens of thousands were murdered every year, by the shah and the us military.
They removed your puppet.
Reagan, bush were numptys at best, figureheads for the US military extremists.
Your country is detested as are the US military, even they are committing suicide because of there behaviour and genocide, so bollocks to you hype and dogma.

Regards
Highlander

 

What I have stated is not propaganda...it is the reality.

If you could I would like to ask you to point out a few lines of my post that you think is not a fact.

AboveAlpha

 

The very first sentence Iraq was planned more than ten years before the invasion. The illegal invasion which was proven to be American lies and deceit. UN resolution1444 was used to invade where even Powell acknowledged was not giving permission to invade Iraq.
In the second paragraph, it's the illegal behaviour bullying tactic and genocide responsible for the lack of respect , the lies and deceit by your leaders are the reasons your country has no standing in the world.
Any detestable bully will get the same responses for the same behaviour.
Respect is earned, not bombed into someone as is the case in Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, etc etc.
Regards
Highlander

 

I asked you to list something that I stated within this post that you feel is untrue.

My first statement is how I feel about something and thus cannot be labeled true or untrue.

The second paragraph where I state the U.S. is not a country to be trifled with...this is also true or a fact.

Can you honestly say to me that my second statement is not a fact?

Remember...I am asking you these things because you called it propaganda.

They are just simply FACTS.

AboveAlpha

 

Call me cynical Alpha but the reasons for the US invasion of Iraq were fairly straightforward to many outsiders yet never publicly acknowleged. After 9/11 and the subsequent US invasion of Afghanistan they didnt find Bin Laden. The American public were still baying for blood and this failure was politically unacceptable for the Bush administration as any subsequent inaction would now threaten a second term. Something had to be done in order that Bush could secure it. The administration really knew that a large number of dead Arabs would be required for the publics post 9/11 revenge to be sated. Iraq was the perfect patsy because they had already blotted thier copy book and could therefore be made to fit the frame as required .... enter WMDs stage left. Who would really care Stateside that it was the wrong Arabs being killed because they all hate you and Saddam was a really nasty man anyway right ? It all worked out fine because Bush got his second term and that was ultimately all that really mattered

Did I miss anything ?

 

Missed the Iraqi's attempted to assassinate Bush Sr.

AboveAlpha

 

My innate cynicism makes me wonder why they would wait a decade until post 9/11 to then suddenly do anything about that. Perhaps its understandable given that no hard evidence for such a plot was ever established and no evidence discovered post conflict either. In other words it was good old fashioned propaganda plain and simple