Is all morality subjective?

The slow dissolution will almost certainly end in anarchy and violence if we do not pull back from the abyss sooner rather than later.

 

Society is made up of individuals.

 

Still missing the point. We should be asking why we need extensive prison systems - period.

 

No it won't. People are so dissolute now that they'll literally sit and wait to die, rather than stir themselves to save their own skin.

 

We don't.

 

Not so. We've already got anarchy in the streets gang violence in blue cities is but a precursor if things to come.

 

Yet all of those people could have used a more protracted and focused version of that same energy, to better their own circumstances. They didn't.

 

So you would rather criminals retain access to society? The same society they gave the middle finger to in choosing to act against the interests of those around them?

 

So what do you suggest we do with murderers thieves and rapists?

 

What happens when there taught to hate rather than build...

 

What happens to them? Consequences, I hope.

But of course this is the modern First World - so nothing will happen to them. They'll be fed and feted all the days of their lives.

 

Prison should be for actually dangerous people or as a last resort for others. Murderers and rapists should be the long term prison population. Thieves, on the other hand, should pay restitution to victims and the community and avoid prison provided they are making the best effort they are capable of towards that. Putting somebody in prison makes it more likely they will lack legal options to contribute to society in the future, and also more likely they will be better criminals after prison having learned from others.

The issue in America isn't just that we put them in prison, but also for how long. Criminal justice in America is clueless about sociology. Deterrence is primarily driven by likelihood of getting caught, not by the severity of punishment. People don't understand statistics, that if you have a 95% chance of success of getting away with a crime that isn't good odds for something you repeat regularly. The tipping point for deterrence is about a 33% chance of getting caught on average. So better security and enforcement is more important than prison sentence length (which they are usually unaware of anyway).

Lengthy prison sentences for selling crack are ridiculous. That spot should be for a murderer. And of course having drugs illegal makes it more likely it will lead to violence as well, given they lack access to police or courts for disagreements, and they lack access to parts of the banking system to avoid hauling cash around, becoming an armed target.

American culture has its problems, but our criminal justice system makes it worse.

 

The trouble is if you make it legal the street dealers either go out of business or do it illegally and get busted any way as in colorado under marijuana legalization.

 

Danger comes in a variety of guises. Enough people doing petty crime, and it will cause huge problems.

 

OftenThe only difference between a thief and a rapist or murderer is whether or not someone is unexpectedly home.

 

Yet on the left the goal seems to be to let them rob steal rape and murder without consequences. Without consequences there is no reason to not do what you've been doing right along.

 

I don't know if I speak for the left, but I haven't seen a move to have no consequences at all, but certainly no death penalty and more second chances if they can be safely given. A murderer has really crossed a line where we need to keep them away from others as long as possible. This goal is undermined by having long sentences for those who only sold crack or stole something because prison space is finite... I guess unless your goal is to continuously expand the prison system and make a profit off of misery.

Not really. Most burglars REALLY want to avoid running into the residents and run if caught. I've been unlucky in that regard - they definitely avoid you and run. Economic crimes are quite different from violent crimes in that their purpose is to make money without getting caught, not get sexual or bloodlust gratification. Of course there are exceptions and if you're going to murder somebody it doesn't feel like much to also take their stuff (although it then helps tie you to the murder), but it's a different pattern of criminal behavior entirely. I suppose if they're cornered with a gun they would fight back.

 

Marijuana isn't legalized at the federal level, so the benefits of legalization cannot be fully realized. There's also a transition. Just remember alcohol. Alcohol is highly regulated, but it was the major source of profit for organized crime when it was illegal. Legalizing it made it safer and cheaper to get it by legit sources, and deprived organized crime of a source of income. Fewer criminal options means fewer criminal jobs to be had, and suddenly even minimum wage at McDonalds sounds okay when you can't easily make money off of selling drugs.

 

Dude they are raping grandmas essentially on a dare.

 

Um okay. Put them in prison and let the crack dealer out.

 

The crack dealer runs the gang they're in and who set that up as an Initiation into the gang. Oh and not being entirely stupid the minute you try to move a legal business in on his turf he'll have it burned to the ground.

 

Lol. Tell that to Budweiser. Tell them Al Capone’s coming for them. You did learn about alcohol prohibition, right?

 

Dude Al Capone was in jail. And the cops that you apparently don't like hounded him his whole career, the ones he didn't own. And The mafia wasn't a one trick pony. By the time it was legal the speak easys they owned just went legit. And they still made money. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

 

Oh and for what's it's worth you sainted Crack dealers criminal career likely began before he got out of grade school and consisted of petty theft, joining a gang, more petty theft, almost certainly a rape somewhere along but the victim was black so nobody cared, one or more unsolved murders somewhere along the line one of which quite possibly was the guy the ran the gang before him.