Is America a democracy? I dont think so.

Discussion in 'United States' started by billy the kid, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have no apartheid. We attack people that attack us or our allies.
     
  2. Eadora

    Eadora Well-Known Member

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    PROFIT$ - Instead of paying $20-$30+ dollar$ an hour
    ..they now pay .25 cents - & next to 0ZERO in Taxes
    .....................................for Asian child & slave labor

    ............................. [​IMG]

    .
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Our "friends" in Tel Aviv practice apartheid, but they never talk about that on mainstream media, apparently your only source of information and news.

    We support their actions, no questions asked. Our specialty is military aggression.
     
  4. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    But the USA is not a democracy. It's an oligarchy. Ergo: the minority rule the majority.
     
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  5. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are real human rights abuses in Iran, China, Syria, etc. Go bother those countries. Why don't you go to Tianinmen Square and protest against the communist Chinese barbarism?
     
  6. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the last election I saw, I didn't see any oligarchs involved. But there were about 120 million people who voted.
     
  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Why? We were instrumental in creating the UN and it has helped us deal with the Bad Guys.
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, I understand all humans can be barbaric. Look at us, we tortured many with great public support. Yes I know China and other countries practice human rights abuses. So do we.

    The point is that we don't have dual citizens from any of those countries in high managerial positions in our Pentagon, like Dov Zakheim and other Israeli citizens.

    We have the Israeli criminals in our government, going back many years. THAT is the difference.
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Fixed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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  11. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    We have both, the media is free to report what they wish to report and we have a very educated populace. 34% of the adult population has a college degree. A very tiny portion of our society is functionally illiterate. America had less education and more illiteracy and was able to perform for 200 years.

    MSNBC and Fox news show the range of reporting on the same subject. You can listen to both and make up your own mind if TV is where you get your knowledge of issues.

    What America suffers from is lack of involvement in politics. Even us who post here, what was the last email we sent to our politicians which expresses our/your views. 55% of the people vote. We have a media that is subject to economic pressure for both good and bad.
     
  12. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    MSNBC hates America. You should show your evidence to them. They love to show anything that makes America look bad. Sometimes they even make stuff up if they can't find anything.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our media is neither free nor fair - there are books written on the subject. Just because they disagree with each other on some issues - issues which are "acceptable" does not make the media free and fair. It is the issues which are "unacceptable" and thus verboten which makes the media neither free nor fair.

    How many examples would you like ? ... I will give you a couple to start with.

    1) Iran is the #1 state sponsor of terror - Not its not - not even close to Saudi Arabia or the US
    2) The Syrian rebels were "moderate"... not in any significant way they were not - and Obama armed and supported Al Qaeda/Al Nusra and the radical Islamist Jihadists that went on to form the modern incarnation of ISIS.

    The media are lying - Establishment narrative propaganda promoting - clowns Left, Right and Center.

    Having a college degree does not give one the education I was referring to. 12 years of school and we manage not to teach a kid the basic principles on which founded (such as individual liberty and legitimacy of authority) nor do we teach the basics of Philosophy (logic, logical fallacy, what constitutes a valid argument).

    Unless one takes these specific subjects in College - and few do - a College degree will leave a person ignorant of the above.

    Learning Math does not enable one to cast and intelligent vote.
     
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  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very true and one of those which has been studied by many journalists was manufacturing consent which I think came out in 89




    The UK media is far less independent than it was at the beginning of the '80's and that is because it is owned by just a few people with a similar intent. Most journalists now are just propagandists. Sad but true. I think you have much the same problem. You seem to let any one who wants to say whatever they want but that of course can also have a big problem with people wanting to know the truth.

    With regard to democracy I was watching this



    well worth a watch. Towards the end Moore says, we never were a proper democracy though, we were working towards one...and I think this is not just for the US but for the UK and Europe and everywhere else that believes it is a Democracy/ We forget how very little time we had when everyone had a vote. During that time political theorists were working on what was necessary for democracy and working to get things changed but really that seemed to sort of stop about the mid 80's. There is as I am sure you know a great deal more to Democracy than a vote every few years. I have read Despotism can even carry on with that - although -not with the loss of the MC which seems to be happening now.

    From Fahrenheit 11/9, it looks like the US is going to put up a decent non violent fight to keep its Democracy in the making and rights. Meeting American's on this forum it is easy to get the idea the vast majority are right or extreme right but I hear from 11/9 that is far from the case. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does more harm than good. Sending nasty letters to dictators and sanctioning their already impoverished subjects while UN officials continually get caught in human trafficking rings shouldn't engender anyone to the organization.

    Beyond that, their progressive, globalist idealism is increasingly at odds with our sovereign national idealism. Most of what the UN wants to do, we (the US) overrule with our veto power because it would violate our constitution, and as such, the UN can't really get anything done. If we left, it could do a lot more of what it wants too without having to worry about pesky things like our national sovereignty or our congress or our limited democracy. ...of course, it would also have to have to find new primary funding, which is another reason we should leave- we have better things to spend our tax money on.
     
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We're not bound by UN decisions and a lot of the time they give us political cover.
    "Sovereign national idealism" = Trumpist hokum. We can't turn back the clock where unskilled American workers have high incomes. That ship sailed a couples of generations ago.
    We set the UN up to get nothing done.
    The UN isn't ever going to get things done.
    We spend very little on the UN, just over $1b dollars.
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I read manufacturing consent shortly after it came out .. "Necessary Illusions" - thought control in a democratic society is another good one.

    The media has been bad for decades - with respect to challenging necessary illusions and the Establishment narrative. In the last 5 years however - since it became legal for our intelligence agencies to create and disseminate propaganda on US citizens - the media has gotten much worse.

    What is also happening is that those who try to out Gov't crimes through legitimate channels (not talking about Snowden or Manning) are harassed and arrested and imprisoned by the State on made up charges - just like in a totalitarian police state.

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...-panel-at-ron-paul-institute-conference-2017/
     
  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. So why should we be a part of it?
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Because it provides us a lot of political cover.
     
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Plz explain.
     
  21. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Most of what we want to do is pressure bad guys. We have a lot of support for that.
     
  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And indeed well before Manufacturing Descent was written sociology students were studying the way the media was used for conditioning, creating moral panics and so on. However the


    cont'd
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-thatcher-and-rupert-murdoch-made-secret-deal


    Indeed.
     
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  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do we need cover for that?

    How does the UN provide cover?
     
  24. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Rather than engage in rhetorical responses you should take the time to read the Princeton Study which empirically showed that the US is an oligarchy (HERE).
     
  25. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    and you are qualified to vote? by whose standard? Who gives this authority to you? I remember literacy tests for voting, I guess you want to try that again.

    Every kid that graduated high school with my son 10 years ago that I met I thought was qualified to vote. To me as long as you understand the principal that the government just can't print money and make everyone rich and they are two sides to an argument you are qualified.

    It is the responsibility of the press to explain and detail complicated issues into coherent information to the majority of the populace.

    Terrorist or freedom fighter for all history was from the point of view of the teller.

    If you read these published books how how is the press not fair, these arguments were presented to you, they persuaded you, where did you learn about these books? Was it kept away from you.
     

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