Is belief (as opposed to knowledge) immoral?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by modernpaladin, Nov 21, 2019.

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Is belief immoral?

  1. Yes- its wrong to act without factual knowledge.

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. No- acting without factual knowledge is part of discovery.

    6 vote(s)
    85.7%
  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Belief vs knowledge.

    Knowledge is facts. When you know something, its not a belief. You can know that you need to breathe a media containing oxygen to live. You can know that 2+2=4 and the grammatically correct english spelling of dog is d-o-g.

    Belief applies to concepts that have yet to be proven as fact (and consequently, have yet to be disproven and false), or concepts that are subjective.

    One can believe that 16 year olds are or are not adults. They can legally obtain a drivers liscence, but they cannot vote. Some 16 year olds are more emotionally and intellectually mature than other 16 year olds. Thus, this belief is subjective.

    One can believe that humans have or don't have a soul. There is no conclusive evidence that humans have a soul. There is also no conclusive evidence that they don't. Many aspects of our kbowledge of the world around us originated as beliefs. Disease, for example, was believed by some to be caused by organisms that were too small to observe naturally, until the belief was proven by inventing artificial means of perception. Disease was also believed by others to be a punishment for immorality, until the belief was disproven by the the same afforementioned invention.

    In that context, and specifically regarding beliefs of a spiritual nature (like the existence of a human soul), is belief one way or the other immoral or 'wrong'?
     
  2. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    It is worse to believe that you know something than to know you believe something.
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. Believing something so strongly that you claim it as fact despite lacking the proof is akin to delusion.
     
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  4. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Believing a lie - which I'm defining here as a falsehood that serves a person's egotistical side - is obviously immoral.
     
  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I would argue that the idea that disease is not a punishment for sin has not been disproved, we have just figured out the how the theoretical punishment works.

    I am not arguing that illness is punishment only that the theory that it could be has not been disproved.

    fact is people live according to their beliefs, every person on the planet does it some beliefs are based on true facts others are based on speculation and yet others are based on faith.
    it is literally impossible not to act according to what you believe.

    you can certainly do things that are for example against your religion but at the moment you do they you believe they are the best action for you.
    Smoking for example. everyone knows for a fact that as you smoke a cigarette that it is killing you but people still smoke because they believe that that cigarette will not kill them and that the pleasure they get from smoking it is better at the moment.

    now if we are making determinations that affect other people, making laws for example we need to be very careful about how we use our beliefs.
    i would say things we know are things that transcend belief universally.. Gravity makes things fall for example
     
  6. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Not really. The overwhelming majority believe that because it's what they've have been taught, not because they have personal knowledge.
     
  7. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Well then the knowledge base if individuals is tiny.

    I have no first hand knowledge that my lungs filter oxygen from the air and put it into my bloodstream.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  8. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    “Spend more time getting better evidence, rather than trying to convince people in the absence of it.” Paraphrased Neil deGrasse Tyson quote.
     
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  9. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Evidence doesn't create belief..
     
  10. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    I think you are confusing faith with belief.
     
  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    They are the same thing..

    I have faith that doctors and scientists are correct that my lungs are filtering the oxygen in the air and putting in into my blood.

    I have absolutely no first hand knowledge that that is true. I accept it by faith and faith alone. What you accept by faith is what you believe.
    Even first hand knowledge is the same way.

    I believe by faith in gravity that if i jump into the air that gravity will bring me back down.
     
  12. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Your belief in gravity is not by faith but in experience and experience is a form of evidence. Faith is generally used to infer a belief without evidence.

    Faith in your doctor... Perhaps you don't have much history with them and are not equipped to determine their skills and abilities and so you have faith because well, what choice do you have? That's all faith is really. It's to make a person feel better about their choices or because they feel uncertain, unsure, or unsafe not having the answer to what is or will be.
     
  13. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Yup and the bible is equipped to determine right from wrong in the same way a doctor is equipped to determine what my lungs are doing.
     
  14. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Did not claim that it did. Yet belief tends to be based upon evidence.
     
  15. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    You have a conscience. The book is just to remind you to listen.
     
  16. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Belief is subconscious and unavoidable so I don't see how it can be moral or not in itself. What we choose to do about our beliefs, along with our acceptance that is what they are, will be the important element.
     
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  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What your conscience tells you is pretty much dependent on what book you are using.
     
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  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    i agree with your conclusion about behavior but my belief/nonbelief in both God and Gravity is fully conscious
     
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  19. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Maybe it's not a coincidence that our conscience and the bible agree
     
  20. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    good quote, however there are many that manufacture evidence in an attempt to get others to believe...
     
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  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not think so, it's only morally wrong when they use that belief to deny others rights or justify harming others

    now some beliefs can be harmful to themselves, but it's not immoral for them to believe it

    example, if one believes a fruit only diet is healthy, that is harmful to themselves, but not immoral, forcing a baby to eat only fruits is immoral if better options exist

    so I did not answer the poll as not really a yes or no, it depends
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    does it always though?

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy 22:28-29&version=NIV

     
  23. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If one believes that "We saw, we came, he died"...does that make it right- or wrong?

    (For those of you seeing this- let's place bets on deflections- The admin this dude (or chick?) voted for is the rep here
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  24. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    making an assumption that everyone has the same 'bible'...

    ergo, change your word 'our' to 'my' (meaning yours)...

    con > to make someone believe something false + science> to build & organize knowledge= false science... conscience: con science > to build & organize false knowledge
     
  25. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Beliefs exist only in the mind of the thinker, therefore they can't be immoral because they are not actions. Only actions can be immoral.
     

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