Is God Responsible For The Evil In The World? No He Is Not.

Some atheists say the God of the Bible is responsible for all the evil in the world and they quote Epicurus as proof of their claim.

Alvin Plantinga has a very good answer to those atheists and to Epicurus:

Sayeth Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”__Epicurus

Now Alvin . .

As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

"A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga's_free-will_defense#Further_details

Epicurus did not correctly understand the Christian doctrine of God's Omnipotence. God's Omnipotence does not mean that He can do anything. God cannot create square circles. God cannot make 2 + 2 = 7. God cannot give humans the freedom to do evil and at the same time prevent humans from doing evil.

You have to "deep read" what Plantinga explained up there and spend some time thinking seriously about what he wrote. You have to be willing to read it charitably. I hope you are not already locked-down on atheism and have already decided to keep Epicurus as your friend. The fatal flaw in Epicurus is he misunderstood the Christian doctrine of the Omnipotence of the God of the Bible.

___________


Note to any Christians reading this thread: The article on Wikipedia titled "Alvin Plantinga's Free Will Defense" is packed with further detailed explanations and other helpful truths on this issue, here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga's_free-will_defense#Further_details


`

 

Oh Baloney!

He allegedly created a world....he should've been able to create a world where humans were happy and comfortable....I'm sure we would've appreciated life without seeing children raped and tortured and humans shoved into gas chambers and cities wiped out in floods and fire and people starving...many of whom were good decent people...

 

There has never been an atheist who said the God of the Bible is responsible for evil, this you have completely made up, please do not bear false witness.

 

Christians often make this defence of their god, however the above is incorrect, if their god is Omnipotent then there is no reason he cannot make 2+2=7 or create a square circle, it is just that our brains cannot conceive such a thing, an Omnipotent god however should simply will it to be so, just as such a thing should create a world without evil!

 

Right!

If god created the "box" he should be able to think outside of it

 

Dude. Atheists don't believe God created evil. You're arguing that people who do not believe in something are attributing magical powers to something they don't believe exists.

Now if you want to argue that atheists pretends a god exists for the sole purpose of making theoretical arguments and mental exercises about the moral make-up of mythical gods, then you can have fun with that.

But you also realize that Believers of gods other than yours can make the same arguments against your PARTICULAR god, right?

 

If an omnipotent God created the framework for the world, and all the creatures in it, then He/She/Them had the power to
create humans powered by any energy conversion method desired. That God chose to create human powered by the consumption of other living organisms. He could have created humans powered through photosynthesis, eliminating the need for competition for food - which drove human conflict for centuries. But he decided to create a world that runs off competition for resources for organisms to survive.

 

A human telling God what he should do..

The highest form of ignorance and arrogance at the same time.

 

Ronald,

Thanks for taking a look at my Opening Post.

You are mistaken. There are many atheists who have said that the
God-That-Does-Not-Exist is responsible for all the evil in the world.

What does that mean? Well atheists do not believe that God exists
but, for the sake of argument, they say that if the God of the Bible
does exist, then He is responsible for all the evil in the world because
He is Omnipotent and could have designed a world without evil.

I just recently read a lengthy thread on another forum where
an atheist and many of his fellow atheists blamed the God of
the Bible for inflicting the COVID-19 virus on humanity.

Yes, sure! I know that atheists do NOT believe that God exists.
But they, for arguments sake, argue against the God of the Bible
and say that if He does exist, He would be evil because He could
prevent evil, but chooses NOT to prevent it.

Ronald, I see where you have only about 200 posts here. So
maybe you are not aware of what is being said on forums across
the Internet. You obviously are not aware.

Have you read the books written by the infamous "new atheists"?
It does not appear that you have read them.

Are you aware of what Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel
Dennett, Matt Dillahuntry, and the late Christopher Hitchens
have said about the God of the Bible? Clearly you are not
aware of what they have said.

They have specifically and clearly and emphatically declared
that the God of the Bible IS responsible for the evil in the
world.

Stephen Fry, an atheist, has a video on You Tube, He was
being interviewed and he was asked, 'What would you
say to God when you die and find out that Christianity
is actually true, and you are standing at the pearly gates?

Stephen Fry replied that he was going to ask God "Why he
put bone cancer in children?" "God, What is that all about?",
asked Stephen Fry.

__________


Here is Richard Dawkins on the God of the Bible:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant
character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust,
unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser;
a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal,
pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously
malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

So?

So you are 100% incorrect when you said:

"There has never been an atheist who said the God of the Bible is
responsible for evil, this you have completely made up, please
do not bear false witness."__Ronald Hillman

 

Sorry, but what part of, "... most unpleasant character in all FICTION ..." Don't you understand?
Dawkins is saying that it's a fictional character and is merely concocting a mental exercise about
a character he doesn't believes exists. Saying he "blames" this fictional God for anything is just silly.

 

If God is to be judged as Donald Trump is judged then he is responsible for absolutely everything that is wrong.

 

"no reason why he cannot make 2 + 2 = 7
or create square circles"__Ronald Hillman

Heh heh, when you say things like that, then you have entered
The Realm Of The Absurd. Therefore Ronald, here is my reply
to your post: The red 1958 Ford truck was a smart phone and
served in World War l as a General in command of a platoon
of rabbits who distinguished themselves as potatoes in the
mess hall where the chef served them to the pacifists. Ronald
please give serious thought to my reply to you. It contains
much wisdom and harmonizes perfectly with your views that
an Omnipotent God can make 2 + 2 = 7 and can make square
circles.

 

I liked listening to Dawkins, he comes across as mild and sincere. Too bad he was wrong about everything.

 

Your opinion is noted.

 

God is also a God of order. Chaos is not in His nature. Therefore 2+2 cannot equal 7.

 

No, it's not. That was your way of dismissing it entirely. Therefore it's not at all noted.

 

Glad you caught that. "Wrong about EVERYTHING" is a claim that is easily dismissed as hyperbolic bull crap.

 

I previously made it crystal clear that was exactly what I was talking
about. You knew this. Why?" Because you quoted my post where I
specifically made it clear when I said this:

JAG Previously Wrote:
You are mistaken. There are many atheists who have said that the
God-That-Does-Not-Exist is responsible for all the evil in the world.

What does that mean? Well atheists do not believe that God exists
but, for the sake of argument, they say that if the God of the Bible
does exist, then He is responsible for all the evil in the world because
He is Omnipotent and could have designed a world without evil.___JAG

So?

So why did you post back and say this?

 

A fascinating rebuttal to Alvin Plantinga's Free Will Defense.

You can make your point and Plantinga can make his point:

As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

"A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga's_free-will_defense#Further_details

______


What Plantinga said is reasonable and your "Oh Baloney" rebuttal and your re-statement of Epicurus is not a defeater of Plantinga's Free Will Defense.




`

 

I didn't mean it as hyperbolic i used to listen to the man lecture and have great affection for him well as much as you can without meeting and knowing them. I feel that way about a great many people i disagree with.

So, it is not hyperbolic from my point of view, i see it as tragically sad that someone so smart and articulate , and seemingly kind and honest could be so mistaken in a particular area that cost him absolutely everything.

I come to this site mostly to argue about politics, but on this subforum. All the anger and angst is left behind. I'm here to combat Satan's plan for your destruction and plead for your souls.

 

So you double down on your false witness, all atheists would use the caveat "if such a god exists" please be honest.

 

Clearly a god who is omnipotent could recreate history so Patton was ordering rabbits around, that your mind cannot conceive of it is the issue, that you cannot understand the argument I am making is a lack of understanding.

 

A human being imagining what a omnipotent god would be capable of, just like human beings imagine such a god exists!

 

I am here to combat the idea that intelligent people can try to intimidate others with imaginary ghosts and ghoulies!

 

Fascinating stuff to be sure!

Ronald Hillman says:
"Christians often make this defence of their god, however the above is incorrect,
if their god is Omnipotent then there is no reason he cannot make 2+2=7 or
create a square circle, it is just that our brains cannot conceive such a thing,
an Omnipotent god however should simply will it to be so, just as such a
thing should create a world without evil!"__Ronald Hillman

And FoxHasting agrees with that. And Fox writes:
"Right. If god created the "box" he should be able to think outside of it"__FoxHastings

Fascinating and amazing stuff! . . In your thinking you believe that if the God
of the Bible is Omnipotent then He could make 2 + 2 = 7 and He could make
square circles.

You should have no intellectual problems with the following:

The red 1958 Ford truck was an intelligent smart phone and
served in World War l as a General in command of a platoon
of rabbits who distinguished themselves as potatoes in the
mess hall where the chef served them to the pacifists. Fox
please give serious thought to my reply to you. It contains
much wisdom and harmonizes perfectly with your views that
an Omnipotent God can make 2 + 2 = 7 and can make square
circles.


`