Is health care a right or a privelege?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Jesse999, May 28, 2017.

  1. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Cool, let's talk about linguistics.
     
  2. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's interesting how consistently those who will not provide for themselves see it as a right to demand that others pay for their needs. While I agree that the health of a nation is important in a multitude of ways- one must ask what the impact is of a person who will not provide for their own care, and believes that placing the burden for their care on others is their right. This implies that the person would also be rather unlikely to be willing to sacrifice for the benefit of the nation anyway, unless there was something in in directly for them.

    You can build a winning team with strong players- but if you force those that are willing to give 100% to carry those who wish to ride free, you cripple your own team trying to carry dead weight. It's not politically correct these days to call those who want free benefits freeloaders- but that is what they are.

    This is a rather blatant observation that obviously does not reflect the motives of all who think health care should be free. It does say that too many are more concerned with the value and quality of services and things you actually pay for- and too little concerned with the value of things you think others will pay for. We already have a system that is in trouble because people cannot make the connection between outrageous medical bills and their true causes- because those are the problems of the insurance companies. Medicine has become a cash cow for lawyers, and the regulations and malpractice insurance costs a nightmare for those who practice medicine. But is it the consumers who pay for all the abuse- because the abuse drives the cost of insurance. WE are the "someone else" who pays the bills, every time- there simply is no free lunch, only the abuse of stealing it from someone else.

    The same surgery that costs $40K in the USA is done everyday in Spain and many other nations for about $7K. That is about the patients deductible cost on many insurance policies in the US. We have a miserable system, but nobody wants to address cutting out the excesses, the abuses, and all the factors that do not improve the quality of care- but that is what is making care un-affordable. Before we give everything away at "someone else's" expense, how about returning some realistic values to the medical system?
     
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  3. Jesse999

    Jesse999 Active Member

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    Fidel sought out a specialist regarding his particular problem....it is not unusual for people to do that....that does not indicate Cuba does not have a good health care system.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/salim-lamrani/cubas-health-care-system-_b_5649968.html
     
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  4. IMMensaMind

    IMMensaMind Banned

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    And in the end, the leftist shows his stripes as a tyrant.
     
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  5. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, the article you're looking for is here.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/cuba-health/508859/

    Same outcomes for 1/10 the cost.

    Try to stay away from your propaganda sites. You learn nothing but lies.
     
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  6. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    So the secret to providing a low-cost healthcare system for an entire nation is to create a socialist country with pervasive poverty. Very interesting.
     
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  7. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    A freely elected one. Lol
     
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Nope, you have a constitutional right to do so. I can point specificslly where it is written that you have the constitutional right to do so. You can't point to anything, anywhere where "natural rights" are written, because there is no such thing.

    Rights are man made concepts, agreed upon by society.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  9. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    A government can only limit what an individual might otherwise do.
    A man is only limited by society not empowered by it.
     
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Nope. You have no rights, that weren't agreed upon by the rest of society. You can claim,to,have anything you wish, but unless otherwise enshrined in law (agreed upon by society) you don't have jack ****.

    which is why a few hundred years ago, white folk could own other human beings, despite t were owned believing they had a right to freedom. It wasn't until the rest of society agreed (13th amendment) that people had the right not to be owned.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  11. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    man predates organized society.
    Fail.
     
  12. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Just showed you how and why you are wrong.

    Lol
     
  13. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Nothing, including healthcare, is free. Making healthcare a right and providing "free" healthcare, necessitates either enslaving others or taking their property.
     
  14. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Didn't read thread. Healthcare is neither a right nor a privilege, it is a service on one end that people buy and pay for, and a RESPONSIBILITY, an individual responsibility of everyone, on the other side. For a vast supermajority of the population, it is about 80% personal choices and behavior and 20% professional medical services... as a matter of FACT and not opinion.

    As such, mostly due to behavior and choices, it can never be a right other than for placard waving idiots looking for something for nothing and thinking they will get the better deal by stealing more and more earnings from their fellow man.

    You can spend trillions of dollars on medical services and drugs, and NEVER EVER counter personal choices. In fact, in the status quo, medical advances tend to act as a "free pass" for the most atrociously bad personal health choices imaginable, "Eh if I get addicted, I'll just go to rehab on the company dime, what I want and my feelz NOW are more important." "Eh if my kids have the genetic diseases I have then the government will pay for it, what I want and feelz NOW are more important," "Give me another Baconator and some smokes, what I want and my feelz NOW are more important."

    That healthcare can -ever- be considered some kind of right is an immoral farce. Our healthcare industry is already >50% government, and NOT "capitalistic." As such it is in desperate need of deregulating and change because it is failing. It is failing due to government involvement not because of need for more government in it.
     
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  15. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    The existence of the bill of rights is not responsible for the growth of the Federal government's power. Rather it is the federal government's position that it Article I, section 8 gives it virtually unlimited powers, which is to say that it considers its powers infinite and not enumerated.
     
  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Deregulation is necessary for health care costs to fall to reasonable and affordable levels.
     
  17. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    That's the Federal government's position, yes. Why do you think the people don't even think about this fact? When you ask your average American if something is "un-Constitutional" they will immediately look at the Bill of Rights to see if it infringes on some guaranteed right.

    Probably 95% of the population doesn't even know what Article 1 Section 8 is for.

    Public understanding is necessary to protect the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights obscures matters, just as Madison and Hamilton knew it would.
     
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  18. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the bill of rights obscures matters. However, even without a bill of rights, the federal government would impose no checks upon itself, since it simply says that Art I, section 8 gives it virtually unlimited powers.
     
  19. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Who knows? There's a chance that the Amendment process would be used more often in the expansion of powers, which I'd be okay with personally.
     
  20. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    The slaves of public education sing a great gospel spiritual. Lol
     
  21. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    There's always that possibility.
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    The very nature of healthcare precludes it from ever being capitalistic.

    Healthcare is not a commodity, like choosing an automobile, or cell phone.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  23. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. It worked just fine for over `100 years in this country, and a vast majority of the medical advancements of that time were under a more capitalist medical care system. Once government got involved by selling its graft regulations to entrenched cronies, large hospital and insurance companies, THAT'S when the costs spiraled. It's no different from government meddling in student loans or mortgages.

    That people with any conception of governing history believe that central governments ever do "good" in markets they interfere in is the mystery of the last 150 years. But we all know that the people who want more government want it because 1. they believe they will come out winning, and 2. they are immoral and willing to steal from their fellow man to do so
     
  24. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But if you watch someone get run over by a bus, who you could save but choose not to, thats perfectly legal.
     
  25. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    It most certainly and demonstrably does.

    And with the current technologies, and vast array of treatments/drugs, it is no longer a commodity.

    Nope. Prices have steadily increased for the entire history of this country. The reason for this, is because hrslthcsre is not and can not be s commodity.
    It is an inarguable demonstrable fact that single payer health care systems are less expensive, and offer better care than our system.
     

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