Is Israel-Iran clash imminent?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by trucker, Apr 23, 2018.

  1. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    The pro Jihado Islamo Paleshtinos here do not say anything about Iran's treats to wipe Israel of the map..
    Why ?
     
  2. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    High fantasy. The day Israel uses its nukes will be the day it ceases to exist.

    The day they do that, every country on earth will try to get the bombs, and "rogues" will oblige.

    The day they do that, they will become universal enemies.

    The day they do that, the jewish disapora is going to have some hard times, too.

    Ain't going to happen. Those nukes Israel have may have been a deterrent in the 80s, but right now they're a suicide tool. Too much to lose.

    In any nuclear war, the country that has the most to lose, will lose.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Be aware goody it is Borat who has this already at Nuclear War.

    What I said is that Russia's position is no longer neutral if Israel intends invading Lebanon/Syria air space and dropping bombs. Russia has made that clear. Russia's position has changed from being a bit more leaning certainly on rhetoric towards Israel, being extremely open to all calls from Israel to come into Syrian air and bomb to telling Israel it must stop destabilising Syrian by these bombs. This all began with Israel's bombing of T4.

    Russia's position now is on defending Syria and it's allies there. Hence Russia is talking about giving Syria S-300's which it had previously not given simply because Israel asked her not to. This is what Russia says it is still making up it's mind on. In reality there would be no reason to put them in as they are already in Syria along with Russia's S-400 and their air defence systems are in any affect integrated.

    This is the change which has happened and which is spoken about here - all the links but one which I tried were working so this is no made up story.

    A bit more of the background you can find here

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...r-jets-struck-iranian-base-in-syria-1.5979943

    and another part of the change in Russia's position may involve your own country

    https://www.juancole.com/2018/04/emerging-alliance-reshape.html

    Russia has not threatened anyone with Nuclear War. However Russia convinced Mattis that starting on an 'Iraq' or Regime Change or any significant action in Syria re the 'chemical weapons' which I believe were a response to the above could well result in the situation escalating. That escalating could have brought the US into direct war with Russia. That is why the US pulled back from what it was initially intending to a symbolic strike.

    Which is what we are talking about here. As I have said it is Borat who was raising this to the level of nuclear war. Israel was attacking the defence of Syria and killing Russia's allies and according to Russia with the strike on T4 without her permission. I believe this was the first time Israel has attacked Iranian personnel in Syria. Further according to Russia, Israel was risking the lives of Russians. After the T4 strike Putin told Netanyahu that he would no longer accept Israel coming into Syria and bombing his allies and destabilising Syria. From the Haaretz article above, it would appear that Russia now sees Israel as not just acting for her defence but rather acting as an American Proxy.

    What has happened is that Russia has changed it's position.
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...00-why-now-what-it-means-for-israel-1.6028829
    It no longer will allow Israel to come into air space which Russia has control of and bomb in Syria. That is what this is about. It has just occurred to me that this may be Russia's response to the killing of her people a few weeks ago - or that may certainly be an element in it but the reality is that Russia's position has changed from one which was extremely supportive of Israel to letting Israel know an attack on Russia or her allies in Syria/Lebanon or Iraq is not acceptable to Russia.

    It is Russia not Israel who has set the red line. The allowing of Syria's allies, to use Russia's S-300 or even S-400 is the change which Russia has been speaking of. This followed Russia telling Israel it would not accept her bombing her allies in Syria following her bombing of T4 and killing of Iranians, followed by the US/UK/France strike for alleged chemical weapons. I believe that the 'chemical attack' was Israel's way of trying to get the US to sort out this situation for Israel. In reality it appears to have made it worse as it was after that that Russia spoke of giving her allies in Syria access to S300.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  4. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has long surprised me what with the sanctions and threats Iran has faced that she had not done this already. I think everyone apart from the US knows this is the likely outcome of breaking this treaty - or I guess if the US has taken that into consideration she is hoping to have taken care of Iran before such is facilitated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  6. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Retroiboi was talking about a scenario of mutual destruction, so yes ofc its an end game case but for both sides, so chances are it will be a regional fighting over Syria if anything at all.
     
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  7. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Something tells me it wont be the S-300, but if I'm wrong it will mean the Russians failed to reach an understanding between Israel and Iran and some war is probably drawing near.
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Macron apparently has presented Trump with a new deal on Iran

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/macron-france-us-wish-to-work-on-new-nuclear-deal-with-iran/

    Given that Iran currently has a deal agreed to by the United States, does anyone really think Iran, particularly knowing US word counts for nothing, is going to accept this?
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well they already have the S300 and S400 though till now Russia has not allowed them to use them. That article though is talking about a better system

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...oon-escalating-tensions-with-israel-1.6029530

    Basically what we have is each one upping the stakes. I don't see Russia backing down on this. Possibly this goes back to the original article I linked on this and it is time for this.

    http://21stcenturywire.com/2018/02/18/syria-putin-makes-offer-israel-will-israel-refuse/

    Of course if Russia and Israel came to an acceptable deal then Russia may do different but at the moment .....
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  10. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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  11. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    By saying they will supply a "new" system they can keep the pressure on Israel to settle things down with Iran, it does'nt really has to be a new system, yes they already have S-300 and 400 in Syria but that's in Russian hands and for now they don't target Israeli jets.
    The S-300 is Russia card to play and I don't think they will just throw it into the game unless talks have failed, my guess is if talks really fail we will hear about it, preparing us for war.
    As it is now the Russian statement can go either way.
     
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  12. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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  13. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    IMO, that's just Macron's way to bring Trump to the present Iran deal's acceptation. The man has a priviledged relationship with Trump, despite it being against all odds, and he should be the one tasked with that mission by the rest of the signatories.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes that is how I am seeing that.
     
  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not sure about Macron at all.
     
  16. free man

    free man Well-Known Member

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    No
     
  17. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Israel cannot concede air superiority, without it they cannot withstand an attack. They will fight over the issue.
     
  18. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    They abused it when they had it. Israel's got a mean tab in the karmic dept.

    I hope they try.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  19. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    I think we can trust in Macron's neo-liberal commitment. Signatories of the accord didn't sign it out of love for Iran - it was for business' sake.

    Politicians may pass but the establishment/swamp stays.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    or try to resolve the issues.
     
  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well I doubt if anything will happen of this idea.

    Juan Cole

    https://www.juancole.com/2018/04/macron-trump-talk.html
     
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  22. goody

    goody Banned

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    Why Lebanon? Half of the country's population is with the American-Israel ally France. Not so fast Downeaster mam... :)
    Apart from it, Israeli jets fly in and out both countries' airspaces on daily basis. What does Russia do you suppose? Shoot them down? SPAAGs might be built with Russian help but still considered as Iranian vehicles and wheelmen are typical terrorists.

    Moreover, Israel is neighboring Lebanon and Syria and taking a lot of heat from both. Its security is under grave danger because of hostile activities of Iranian proxies and terrorist factions settled in those countries. So Israel has all the legitimacy to carry out strikes when necessary and when necessary is depending on the levels of Iranian beefups towards militia positions. Russia, far away from home, is in a region full of many variables making possible some different equations which lead different scenarios, determining many different outcomes. We call them "crazy Russians" but actually they are not that crazy to withstand and block Israel's defensive air-strikes...

    That's out of question... : )

    Now? We the world thought it'd been it since day one. Now ? Lol.

    Then maybe it's Russia's best interest to go back home and leave the damn region to the ones who really "live" there. It's better for it to mind its own business. Armenia is CIAed up pretty bad I heard : )
    I didn't say otherwise.

    To the Eastern axis there "wasn't" even any chem attacks during the first few days... Now it's; "chems might be used but it ought to be a false flag"
    Nice improvement...
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When you start dealing with information you were provided with, stop trying to suggest things were said which were not and keep up with what is happening I may find it worth my while to reply to you again.
     
  24. goody

    goody Banned

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    There's no information that can refute my previous post addressed to you because observation beats manipulative info.
     
  25. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh another one going by his 'gut feeling'. Does not the reality that Gilos even acknowledged the situation touch you. Anyway I think I know what is upsetting you. Turkey was wanting Syria to be Sunni and Iran was wanting Syria to be Shia but I hear they are going to be secular. You didn't read the Turkey link I gave you.
    https://www.juancole.com/2018/04/emerging-alliance-reshape.html

    Times change goody, those who do not notice get left behind. I also left you other links which if you took the time to read would have described the situation in more detail to you.
     

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