Is it historically accurate that monetary policy was central to American Revolution?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by DennisTate, Nov 25, 2014.

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Did oppressive central banking policy play major role in 1776 Revolution?

  1. No... this is a myth began by conspiracy theorists.

    11 vote(s)
    73.3%
  2. Yes.... oppression of the 13 State Scrips was a major factor in American Revolutionary War.

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Yes... but this could lead to hyper-inflation and devaluation of the dollar.

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. "Truthers" of some sort existed back in 1941 as well as in 2014!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Curmudgeon….. your reply is brilliant…. I am certain that you have at least fifty more IQ points than I do….. maybe a hundred!

    It is truly a pleasure to debate with somebody who is so amazingly well informed…… but……. if I was a billionaire…. and if I regarded strong unions as one of the greatest evils on earth…..I can see myself coming up with something of a conspiracy myself….. to keep those unions weaker.

    I actually have been cogitating on something of a "Unified Theory of Modern World Problems" that hinges largely on significant improvements in central banking policy as well as on placing much greater value on human life and less value on oil, gold, silver and other shiny metals.


    http://www.christianforums.com/t7735229/
    Unified Theory of Modern World Problems??!!
     
  2. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon New Member

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    Thanks for the compliment but no, I'm just an average guy, but I do have an advantage on the topic we are discussing. I taught U.S. history for years at both the High School and Community college levels, and my degree is a BA in History. I do enjoy discussing topics with people who are thoughtful and civil, which you have been.

    One of the key things that I learned in my study of history, is that to understand it, you have to look at it and think about it from the frame of reference that those living those events had, not your own. It's the reality they think they are living which causes them to make the decisions they do, the mental and emotional, baggage that they carry, the shared beliefs are what shape those decisions and their responses.
     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly!

    Now I certainly would love to be in error….. but I strongly suspect that what you were taught…….. was spun to you in a much more positive light than the full fledged absolute truth.

    That is not to say that the powerful people making rough decisions did not have somewhat good intentions. A tight money supply is one of the best ways to protect the environment?!

    When we humans begin to place higher value on what really matters……. I believe that beings composed of more fundamental energy who are powerful beyond human comprehension…. will raise up political leaders who will make it possible for people to be free of debt?!


    http://www.near-death.com/storm.html#a04
     
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just read a truly brilliant reply to a related question in another thread that I just have to copy and paste over here:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/united-states/211515-who-actually-owns-fed-why-must-end-2.html

    Who Actually Owns the Fed and Why That Must End


     
  5. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon New Member

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    Good answer. In a modern economy you need a central bank, that operates in an unpoliticized manner. It needs to be accountable, but it also needs to be independent. During the periods when the U.S. had no central bank, the constant market collapses and the constant interference of Congress either inflating or deflating the currency prevented the development of a real middle class.
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are absolutely correct Curmudgeon!

    The American Federal Reserve, although flawed, has done a reasonably good job of balancing the conflicting goals that any central bank must consider.

    If they put too much money into the system, the economy booms but the damage to the environment can be catastrophic.

    If they put too little money into the economy unemployment will be high and whatever political party happens to be in power will be blamed even though it is not entirely their fault.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So then this might mean that the statements attributed to Ben Franklin about poverty happening within a year or so was only occurring in some areas of the 13 colonies, but not in all?
     
  8. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon New Member

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    At that time, the vast majority of Americans (95%+) were just above the level of subsistence farmers. They had little cash,
    raised most or all of their own food, sold what little surplus they had more often through barter than for cash. Land in the wilderness was very cheap, and plentiful. Only a very small minority had any real wealth, and what passed for a middle class consisted of tradesmen and very successful farmers usually located near urban areas.
     
  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What led to the Revolution was King George's colonial embargo on saltpeter.
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But in comparison to England where such high numbers of people were landless and desperate for any sort of work, the situation in America and Canada would I suppose seem to be quite good wouldn't it?

    Here is an article that rather shocked me as to how bad things were for the Irish.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

    - - - Updated - - -

    So do you think that the article quoted in the opening post is largely inaccurate?
     
  11. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon New Member

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    Yes, compared to Europe, lower class residents of the British colonies were comparatively well off. The last time commoners in Europe were as well off was right after the end of the Black Death period, where large tracts of Europe were depopulated and serfs and commoners could fairly easily move in and take over the lands of the deceased.
     
  12. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, I actually went to the link you provided and read most of the article. At first I asked myself, did Benjamin Franklin really say that ? What I found interesting was he referred to the colonies as a nation back during the 1750's. Doing a quick research, it seems these were Franklin's own words and they have been being quoted for over two hundred and fifty years now.
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This sure fits with the idea of President Lincoln asking about alternatives to the acceptance of an offer he got as he was figuring out how to finance the Civil War.

    http://www.michaeljournal.org/lincolnkennedy.htm
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am intrigued to notice that at least one candidate for the office of President plans to do something about the problems in our money supply system...…

    https://www.facebook.com/Steven-D-K...-states-of-America-1656420081237824/timeline/


    Steven D Kelley for President of the United states of America


     
  15. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Somewhere in my crappy directory system of saved web pages is a page that gives the exchange rates of colonial currencies; these would mostly rates for money of account. Massachusetts was the soundest, being closer to the value of a British pound than the other states, with New York being second, and South Carolina having the worst, at around 8 Carolina to 1 British pound, iirc. It also included Peso values as well. I'll try and find it and post a link, if a link still exists; it was years ago.
     
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  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you immensely for this comment!

    Yes.......... that web page would be extremely interesting indeed.

    In the meanwhile you wouldn't happen to have some suggestions as to what words to Google to perhaps find this with a search?

    "Colonial currencies exchange rates, 1755" perhaps?

    Yup... that works...…

    http://people.virginia.edu/~ms3uf/brock/brock34.htm


     
  17. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Yup, the Brock essay was indeed the main one, useful for its charts and tables. Other links I have are along the same mein, like this one:

    http://eh.net/?s=/michener.american.colonies.money

    And an xls spreadsheet out there somewhere on Maryland and prices, and another.

    gpih.ucdavis.edu
    gpih.ucdavis.edu/files/Chesapeake_1733-1827.xls

    ... Cambridge University Press, 2006), vol. 5. Sources: ... The Chesapeake: ... 1733-1827 British £ Peter Lindert, April 2006. 7.90 0.30 0.31 7.54 0.33

    http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...1827.xls/RK=0/RS=uuIYrDgUGgXBCosOPHcviTl11fM-

    gpih.ucdavis.edu
    gpih.ucdavis.edu/files/Silver_in_North_America_1649-1977.xls

    North Carolina South ... Money and Exchange in Europe and America, 1600 ... Matthew Pearson, 8 March 2006, Peter Lindert 9 April 2006 silver per unit of colonial ...

    The Brock page is probably the best general page on it, lots of tables and figures and sources there. The rest are all behind Muse and Jstor walls.

    A related book available free at archive.org is Essays in the Earlier History of American Corporations by Joseph Stancliffe Davis, 4 volumes., and Financial History of The United States
    by David Rich Dewey, also available free at archive.org

    My reference to the Carolina pound values is wrong, it only applied after the Revolutionary War and the new Federal govt. had not yet assumed the states' war debts; insiders ran around the country in the months before the compromise buying up state debts at 10 cents on the dollar, before word got out that there were even discussions about the Fed assuming the debts of the states.
     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Strasser.... I just got an intriguing question over in another thread that I thought you might know something about?


    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=298013&page=3&p=1065760052#post1065760052

    We Canadians owe Americans an apology for how we behaved during Revolutionary War!

    .....
     
  19. HailVictory

    HailVictory Banned at Members Request

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    You know, funny story it is actually. Americans were pushed to war due to a multitude of underlying annoyances with the British. Essentially, to keep the economy running, the English employed "salutary neglect", and said that they weren't going to do virtually anything to the colonies if they violated trade laws. However, this practise of salutary neglect and pretty much an overall indifference to American affairs led to America developing virtually on their own. The First Great Awakening mixed with the Enlightenment led Americans to develop rather new political, social, and cultural beliefs that differed greatly from England. However, England returned to American affairs during the 7 Years War and/or the French and Indian War, and with the rise of King George III, new policy was put in place placing a higher degree of English control over America. However, the war brought Americans in close contact with their British rulers. This developed a mutual animosity between the two, Brits beliving Americans to be complacent and lazy, and Americans believing Brits to be oppressive jerks (both statements would be true ;) ). To pay for the 7 Years War, England imposed a tax on the colonists who had to share the burden in finances. American were angry because Britain hadn't meddled in America before. Anyways, by the time England realised that this animosity had developed into something that would cause war and lose them the colonies, it was too late, and so Britain lost the American Colonies. So in short, no, Britain was not being very oppressive towards the colonists, and there really was no oppressive central banking policy.
     
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  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exceptionally well said!

    IF....... the bankers of London had had a different view of their own role in history................. and had any clue of how great America would soon become......... they could have been a little less selfish and elitist and could have had a relationship with the USA that would have been just as good as they now have with Canada, Australia and New Zealand and so many other nations!

    http://www.michaeljournal.org/lincolnkennedy.htm

    Melvin Sickler:
     
  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So then...… is my own guilt trip exaggerated?

    The name Tate, is part of the English aristocracy.....(lower class people are unlikely to have a museum named after them)!

    I have been on something of a guilt trip since the 1980's when I finally figured out that my last name came from Northern Ireland..... and my dad's ancestors...… oppressed my mom's ancestors..... the Malloy's!

    (James Malloy left County Tipperary in 1791 bound for Nova Scotia, (or was it New Brunswick))?!
     
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good answer!

    So............. would it not be logical for my diabolical English aristocratic ancestors to figure out that flawed central banking policy was one of the only way to keep those lazy Americans.....(and Canadians for that matter)...… productively working and producing something or other of some value?!?!

    .............
     
  23. HailVictory

    HailVictory Banned at Members Request

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    Oh yes, and then what did Americans do? The same chant they scream today. MY RIGHTS!!!
     
  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes!!!! But there is something along the line of "artistic perfection" in all of this......... The following thread is not me being sarcastic......... I actually am a Canadian on something of a guilt trip over the way that we treated our American neighbours over the past three centuries.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-how-we-behaved-during-revolutionary-war.html

    We Canadians owe Americans an apology for how we behaved during Revolutionary War!
    For starters I would like to thank you Americans for being led and inspired by God better than we Canadians tend to be because it was seriously cool of you to decide to NOT persecute my United Empire Loyalist ancestors!!!!

    Some of my ancestors were Masons from Dixie who came to Country Harbour, Nova Scotia at the time of the American Revolution. I deeply appreciate the fact that so many Americans were closer to God than we Canadians tend to be and somehow your leaders were guided to not persecute us!

    ......Secondly I would like to express my guilt/shame over the fact that my ancestors were gullible and obviously we bought into stories regarding the cause of the American Revolutionary War that were exaggerated and in many cases outright lies!



    Chapter 49 — The History of Banking Control in the United States
    http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty49.htm
     
  25. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are facing a fascinating option.... but we need to admit to more of our guilt in order to set it in motion...…

    There is evidence that other time lines may already have taken place.... in which America was knocked out as leader of the world and an Islamo- Communist group took our place............. but.... we have the option to sit on the Throne of Cyrus but...............… we need to admit to our tendency to be anti-Semitic?????

    The near death experience of Ariela Solsol is one example of anecdotal evidence for this......

    And..... we need to be more open and honest about what we did to the 48 tribes... The North American First Nations peoples!

    http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/428114-canadians-americans-we-beast-rev.html

    Canadians and Americans, are WE the Beast of Rev and....



    Is the G-d of Abraham about to prove H-s supremacy over all military technology by making fools out of us?

    Should we be taking those chariot wheels in the Red Sea much much more seriously?

    What about the UFO over the Temple Mount event of January 2011, was that a warning for us???????

    .............
    Revelation 13:4..."And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? "

    Now I must admit that there are serious advantages to being the world's greatest military superpower..............

    and....... I must admit that I personally like the fact that the F-35 and F-22 Raptors make the fighter jets of all other nations seem like kids toys in comparison...........

    Oh.... I am also referring to ...…

    http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...osophical-implications-multiverse-theory.html

    The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?
     

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