Is Neo[Atheism] a Rational Religion?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kokomojojo, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Please review my posts. You will quickly see you are wrong. I've repeatedly stated that theism is NOT a worldview. It is one belief. There are several theist worldviews, that is worldviews which contain theism as one for their beliefs. That's the exact same thing I've said about atheism. I've said the exact same thing about both and have done so for years, across several threads.

    Christianity gets closer, since it involves a system of beliefs rather than just being one belief. Knowing that someone is a Christian gives me more information than telling me that someone is a theist.
     
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  2. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would like to ask the OP if it is possible for a person to be "non-religious." If it is possible to be non-religious, what beliefs would that person hold?
     
  3. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Nope not possible, the only question is 'what religion'!


    Definition of religion
    1a : the state of a religious
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

    Definition of religious
    1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality (or deity)
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religious

    Everyone's believes what their minds eye sees is the ultimate reality and think and act accordingly.

    Thats whats so bad about false information and propaganda, people are led around by the nose because they have no idea what the truth is and its withheld from them until its too late, like to the tune of several generations. I digress
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  4. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The above seems to me to be the proper definition to be used in this context but perhaps you bolded the wrong part. How about this...

    "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality (or deity)"

    So what exactly does "faithful devotion" mean in the above? Is every person who has ever existed faithfully devoted to an acknowledged ultimate reality? Is it possible that a person has ever gone through life simply taking care of the necessities without even giving much thought to an ultimate reality?
     
  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    every person has a perception of a locally ultimate reality, could be as simple as heaven and hell
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Its the window they view the world through. Again people dont claim any religion before developing a plethora (and system) of beliefs before hand. The level of sophistication has no bearing on it.
     
  7. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now, back to "faithful devotion". Is it possible that a person could be without a "faithful devotion" to a worldview? Depends on the semantics of "devotion" I guess. So what in your mind are the connotations of the word "devotion"?
     
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  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    The ultimate reality means the essence of your core, I am not sure how anyone can be unfaithful to themselves. Thats not to say that a persons ultimate reality is cast in concrete through out their lives as people have ah hah moments all the time and adjust and shift their reality ever honing it through out life as they mature and gain wisdom.

    Here:

    Definition of devotion

    2a : the act of dedicating something to a cause, enterprise, or activity : the act of devoting the devotion of a great deal of time and energy

    b : the fact or state of being ardently dedicated and loyal her devotion to the cause


    Choose the Right Synonym for devotion

    fidelity, allegiance, fealty, loyalty, devotion, piety mean faithfulness to something to which one is bound by pledge or duty. fidelity implies strict and continuing faithfulness to an obligation, trust, or duty. marital fidelity allegiance suggests an adherence like that of citizens to their country. pledging allegiance fealty implies a fidelity acknowledged by the individual and as compelling as a sworn vow. fealty to the truth loyalty implies a faithfulness that is steadfast in the face of any temptation to renounce, desert, or betray. valued the loyalty of his friends devotion stresses zeal and service amounting to self-dedication. a painter's devotion to her art piety stresses fidelity to obligations regarded as natural and fundamental. filial piety

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/devotion
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  9. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So if we use a very broad definition of "religious," and using broad connotations of the word "devotion," let's suppose we can say that any belief is a religion. So atheism is a religion when viewed this way. Now what? Is there any value gained from this "revelation"? Any breakthroughs? Is the human condition advanced?
     
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    The only broad definition is the sense "He is a religious baseball fan" which is not the sense we are talking about here.

    Sure atheists make a choice of religion, no gods, that is a religious choice, just like theist, agnostic, jainist, buhddists, christian, all religious choices, all are the window and colored filter in which the holder looks through which consciously and unconsciously affects value choices etc throughout their whole lives.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  11. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, so armed with that knowledge, where do we go from here?
     
  12. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    It seems to me people are making due just fine with their approaches. They are managing to convey meaning perfectly fine to each other and others (including me). The meaning is there, you have simply failed or refused to understand it.
     
  13. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Wherever you like
     
  14. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Meaning? Yeh agnostic, atheism, atheist, neoatheist, religion, religious, worldview, all easy peasy.

    I guess thats why we have athe-agno-theists running around!

    You know those are the people that do not believe in the existence of God, but they really dont know, so they believe its possible God may exist

    Thats some serious meaning being conveyed LOL
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    No, it is a single sliver of colored glass in a stained glass window. A worldview, by definition, involves a plethora of beliefs. Of course the level of sophistication has bearing. That's the whole point. That's what differentiates a worldview from a simple aggregate belief.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  16. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Oh so then in your opinion people simply plop out land on the table at birth and declare they are atheist, no associated beliefs required. o_O

    If you can show me one birth or person that had no associated beliefs before proclaiming atheist then I will happy retract my position, until then your position will remain patently ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  17. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Anything more to add to this ludicrous straw man or would you like me to just address this one as it stands? I am enjoying the desperate shell same, at least.
     
  18. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Watching your titanic sink is hardly 'my' desperation lol
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  19. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Your inability to address any response says otherwise.
     
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  20. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you missed it:


    Lets look at an average atheist belief system;

    No evidence
    It’s illogical
    The preponderance of suffering
    We don’t need him
    Life’s better without him
    Belief in God Does not Equal Superior Moral Behavior
    Atheism is a Better Use of My Time
    Beliefs Are Inherited
    The Universe Looks Nothing Like It Was Created By a Loving God
    Sexuality


    That a pretty broad spectrum of beliefs for a group that claims they have no belief system hell they would put a lot of work in all that and probably over many years to come up with all those beliefs. That a pretty intense worldview !

    So now are you going to refute it by saying atheists arent clones, as if any other religion is?

     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  21. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Didn't miss it. You just failed to defend the relevance and are sticking to a straw man entangled in a fake argument that has no actual bearing on the debate.
     
  22. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you lost track of the central issue being discussed and wandered off on a tangent expecting me to follow, sorry.

    I knew you missed it, here let me help:

    No evidence
    It’s illogical
    The preponderance of suffering
    We don’t need him
    Life’s better without him
    Belief in God Does not Equal Superior Moral Behavior
    Atheism is a Better Use of My Time
    Beliefs Are Inherited
    The Universe Looks Nothing Like It Was Created By a Loving God
    Sexuality


    That a pretty broad spectrum of beliefs for a group that claims they have no belief system hell they would put a lot of work in all that and probably over many years to come up with all those beliefs. That a pretty intense worldview !

    So now are you going to refute it by saying atheists arent clones, as if any other religion is?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  23. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    LOL and sarcasm all you want, it won't stop the stuff that is making sense to me from making sense.
     
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    No, its not sarcasm, its a precise demonstration how neoatheists are trying to destroy the language. It goes without saying if you can be an agno-atheist, and you can be an agno-theist there is no reason what so ever that you cannot be athe-agno-theist for the very reason I gave. Thats how far over the edge they have taken it. Either that or they are simply too ignorant to understand the meaning and context of the words they use.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  25. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem most vexed that you cannot grasp the simple concept that in the absence of definitive proof, ones beliefs are subject to change without notice. Which is why I am not 100% sure there is no god, I just have "faith" that there isn't one in the absence of convincing evidence to the contrary.

    And considering your demonstrated semantic prowess, I strongly suggest you keep working on developing your "understanding" of meaning within content and useage context.
     

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