Is revolting against our government a viable option now?

We're already massively indebted to a failed government and criminal bankers. They won't let that go without a fight, you can be sure.

 

Then they can have it, if things get to bad and it looks like life here will become unlivable then it is time to move. But really as long as the people are safe and able to live their lives mostly in peace they will let things be. In the end the whole point of a government is to insure the safety of the people. From the first village we gathered together so that we would be safe. Not for rights, or privileges, or ideas, Just for simple safety. We wanted to be able to live our lives in peace and watch our children grow with the hope of something better for them. As long as the government allows that to happen you will have a tough time convincing most people to side with a revolution.

 

most of the difficulties are due to "businesses" who are unwilling to abide with us and state environmental policy.. as Hamlet said "ay there's the rub"...

 

I don't know. People in the Colonies were hardly endangered when they decided to take up arms against the Crown. Many were prepared to fight, to put their lives and those of their families on the line for something other than mere safety.

 

The concept of total war had not been invented yet by so called civilized nations. You can thank Sherman for that little gem and more so WWII. Also when you see our military split apart as different units take sides, then you will have tanks, jets, and bombs. The magnitude of destructive capability could not even be imagined during the 1700's. How can you compare the two?

 

Our government has been untethered from the Constitution; and our currency has been untethered from any tangible backing.

Those 2 conditions are all that need exist for any nation to collapse.

We are within a few years of that collapse. Anyone who understands anything about history, how nations die, how the ruling elite have manipulated our currency and economy to break down the rule of law, gain control of the economy, and trap the citizen in dependence upon the government - knows full well that all of these things have been done deliberately, for very logical reasons.

Once the collapse is triggered, out of the chaos we will be offered "stability" and "security" - in exchange for tearing up our existing Constitution, and replacing it with a positively empowering document that the Establishment will use to fasten unchallenged tyranny upon Amerika.

It's been 100 years in the making... and we're finally arriving at the end game.

It is entirely likely that I will die in a gulag - I am a libertarian, who has vocally fought of the Constitution and liberty. By the reckoning of the politically correct - and oh so tolerant left - I am the poster boy for "reeducation", but at my age, and completely uncompromising... "reeducation" won't work on me - so I'm sure it will be "off to the showers".

 

I can only compare the principles involved. The kind of safety afforded to people by a king, a master, a dictatorship of any variety, is no safety worth living with to many.

As for the differences in military tactics and technology, of course I would hope that any revolutionary movement in America today would not bring us to the point of citizens fighting the horrors of modern military technology. I would hope that the military would either support the people or stay out of it entirely, and my impression of US service men and women tells me that they would indeed sooner side with the people than with some power-hungry people on the East Coast, at least as long as that movement were in any way justified. We are at least a freedom-conscious lot, and I do have faith in the majority of our people to do the right thing.

I worry more about the civilian-shooting cowards in blue, and now increasingly in military-like fatigues as well, who seem to be of a very different mindset..

 

I don't know how "deliberately" it's all been done, but the basic facts of growing unconstitutional concentration of power and the debasement of the currency that you've outlined are true enough. By design or not, I would also tend to agree that someone would attempt to maintain control over the country through even more unconstitutional means were things to heat up, as is clearly indicated by the nature of the government we face already (huge, secretive, attempting to be omniscient and omnipotent), by the reported activities of the Ameristasi, the DHS, buying large quantities of ammunition in apparent preparation for domestic warfare, and so on. This is increasingly not our government, though the politicians and their campaign managers are always going to great lengths to try and convince us otherwise, and of course this will vary from one individual politician to the next as well. Most, I think, are simply concerned with their own careers and helping those who help them. Plenty are also much more content with the system as it stands today than a lot of the rest of us are, perhaps because they always had relative financial and material comfort and have learned to function very well and get ahead in this system, whereas those of us who are less content are often not so well off, or have far more resentment about the limitations and injustices imposed upon us in association with our lack of control over the system of government that's doing the imposing.

 

Armed revolution to protect the constitution? typical nonsensical illogic.

What would the objective of this armed revolution be? to re=instate the constitution? to scrap all laws that the revolutionaires don't like? to scrap taxes? to stiff everyone on the debt? to elminate all "enemy" political parties? what would actually be accomplished besides americans killing americans, destroying the economy and gaining absolutely nothing of value. But then again, america has a habit of massively spending its blood and treasure on masochistic endeavours that achieve little.



Kill the United States of America to order to protect it. Sounds like a Cheech and Chong movie.

 

The only reason there is any angst amongst the citizenry is b/c the FedGov is out of control - on every level.

Our currency is in tatters, our Constitution is in tatters, the Bill of Rights has been completely written out by The Patriot Act and NDAA's, we've been bombing the crap out of the rest of the world for 100 years straight, federal agencies can themselves now make law, those federal agencies along with local police departments are militarizing, our nation imprisons more people per capita than any other nation on earth - including all of the radical, left, communist countries of Asia and Africa, 93 million working age adults are out of work, on an on...

The longer the list runs, the ridiculousness of the situation becomes apparent - apparent to an informed, rational citizen who understands liberty, and what it takes to keep it.

To an indoctrinated serf - yes, I would imagine anything related to liberty would seem "illogical".

I have news for you - your economy already is destroyed, b/c your currency is garbage. You're government has sunk you $225 trillion into debt... I guess you were watching Dancing with the Stars?? Didn't get the memo??

America will collapse within the next 10 years, most likely sooner. Like the engineer on the Titanic told Captain Smith when asked if she was going to sink, he said, "... it's a mathmatical certainty". So too is Amerika's collapse - the writing is on the wall, yet amazingly most can't read it.

The 2008 collapse should have been a wake up call for everyone - but the FedRes did what it does best... plastered over the problems with paper. That game can't, and won't go on forever. We're getting near the endgame now.

Should be fun

 

Now that is funny.

I didnt realize that the "government out of control" crowd was populated by drama queens and hyperbole.
I guess they forget that they voted in their governments, that is if they voted at all. Tell me, do people who believe as you even participate in elections, or is it your duty as an american to reject both elections and outcomes?

The economy isn't anywhere close to destruction. Guess you like the fear flavored unsweetened koolaid.

The Currency happens to be rather strong on world markets.
Here's a link to compare the US to any other currency since 1990.

http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=USD&C2=GBP&YA=1&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=1990&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=29&MM2=04&YYYY2=2014&btnOK=Go%21


I'm not surprised you have fallen for the "unfunded liability clock" paranoia. Gotta laugh at those that treat it like it was a real total of actual future liability. But I realize that simple math and economics can be difficult for some to grasp.

Yes it appear quite obvious that many chicken littles can't read and lack critical thinking skills.

here is a paper from the fed. It goes into some detail as to the research and analysis done in managing the money supply.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/98/11/9811wd.pdf

and here is an article for the less erudite and more current.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-myth-of-the-exploding-us-money-supply-2011-3

Perhaps after you have furthered your education in this area, we can discuss your more informed conclusions.

 

The dollar is the world reserve currency, and all other currencies are tied to it - what sense does it make to even mention what its value is relative to other currencies, if its value is being questioned against the debt of the country that is issuing it??

The national debt today is around $18 trillion, which is more than 100% of GDP. That combined with the fact that the day is coming when there will be fewer people paying in, and more taking out - all the while greater pressure building to pay people off - eventually it will become obvious to everyone that there is no way the scam can carry on.

Once investors balk at buying Treasuries, the only "buyer" of U.S. Government debt will be the FedRes itself - which is the path to hyperinflation. Sure as gravity, these things will happen. Just a matter of when, not if.

As for the FedRes, it is a private corporation that is running a ponzi scheme. It constantly needs new "investors" to pay off the old "investors". If that game stopped - the system would collapse right then and there; as it is, however, the game trundles on as the day of reckoning gets closer and closer.

The FedRes is Bernie Madoff only on a much more massive scale.

 

Jonsa, you speak the truth! Enough with the Chicken Littles who think the sky is falling! Every generation has them -- they are always wrong. Extremists (of the left or the right) are never right.

Those who are dissatisfied have an opportunity to completely change the government every 6 years. Yet they keep electing the same old people time after time. If they really want to know why things don't suit them, they need to take a peek in the mirror and get on with life.

I'm very unhappy with the Congress and with the President, but I'm certainly not giving up on my country!

 

Oh, SUCH bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

I'm tempted to just say that all the revolutionaries should just go ahead, and then the Army could just come in and cut you all down like the criminal murdering dogs you'd be. If you did that. It WOULD improve the gene pool so, but you'd probably kill quite a few innocent people (hell, just about anybody you'd kill would probably be innocent of any real wrongdoing) and board rules forbid encouraging violence, (So I sort of wonder how they permit this whole thread) so I won't suggest that.

What I will suggest is that all you rebels get a grip and study some REAL history, instead of listening to Rush or Glenn or Al Bundy or whoever. Just get a REAL history book from the Library, an actual textbook in the subject from an actual college. Try one of them.

What you'll find is that EVERY President, from Washington on down, was accused of using the Constitution for toilet paper, and, with quite a few, a good case can be made that they did. But another President came along and restored the whole thing, and then a whole DIFFERENT group arose, saying that HE was making the Founders spin in their graves (when it wasn't one of the Founders saying it) and that the Republic would soon fall.

After being invaded by the then most powerful nation on Earth, having a Civil War that killed more people than all our other wars, Fighting a World War, a Great Depression ANOTHER World War and then a 50 year Cold War where the whole world was held hostage by a succession of madmen, each standing in a room filled with gasoline threatening the other with a box of matches; we are still here. We are undoubtedly the most powerful nation on the globe, and still one of the most prosperous.

Like I said revolutionaries, get a grip, and maybe a clue while you're at it.

 

hunting rifles, modified ar15s and ieds do not a revolution make ....

 

Aleksander, You couldn't be more correct! As they said in the '60s, "Right on!!" I might also suggest that if they want to know what happens to those who revolt, they should study the Civil war just a bit. Then ask decedents of Sherman's march through Georgia how that worked out for them. I don't think the United States Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force will have much trouble with them this time. You want to change things? VOTE -- and stop the meaningless chest thumping.

 

Some people are simply not wired to be serfs. We are a very small minority though, as most Amerikans have been easily indoctrinated into accepting authoritarian rule.

For those of us who don't want live under authoritarian rule, there is literally no place left in the world to go. Amerika is now growing into a prison/police state, and the majority of Amerikans are just fine with that. As some have posted, they will cheer whenever the dissenters are rounded up and killed by the government.

It's sick and it's sad... but history always finds a way to repeat itself.

 

We live in a democracy. We do not need a revolution to kick the Government out of office and a revolution is not going to change the fact that the raging masses are ignorant.

The problem is that people keep voting for leaders who's stated Goal is pretty much to trample on the Constitution.

Both Republican and Democratic leaders have been stomping all over the constitution yet folks keep voting for these folks.

The primary cause of this silliness is ignorance and stupidity. People in general do not understand that there is a difference between having a belief and forcing that belief on others so they only support freedom for things they agree with but trash on the freedom of others for things they disagree with.

Belief in freedom is not belief in freedom only for things you agree with. Belief in freedom is belief in freedom for things that you absolutely detest.

Very few understand this because our education does not teach Philosophy (Logic and what is a valid argument), about the meaning of the Constitution and bill of rights and civics in general.

 

No, not even as a final option. (because you loose via counter revolution, via movements or via opposition in politics)

A war on a constitution can be a revolutionary act to cause a counter revolution or a revolt, which is exactly the goal of a revolutionary act (invisible)
A revolt (a reaction) or a counter revolution means motion (fight) in numbers people, that can form a movement (start to organize)
The war on terror and the war on drugs, war on pirates, and so on, do the same, set military/navy and police in action (motion. start to organize), while the drugs and violence does not end, the pirates continue to attack shipping, and the terror stays and the terror alerts too.

 

I agree with you on every point, however, revolution is still an option but i would never take it unless every other option is exhausted. I do not think that now or even in the next decade would be the time for it, we as a people must be responsible.

 

Look, Wist 43 -- I have no use for Obama or his policies, but seriously, you think we have authoritarian rule?? Really?? Perhaps you'd prefer China? Russia? India? Cuba? Vietnam? Venezuela? Or how about Saudi Arabia? Iraq? Afghanistan? Syria? Libya? Or any African hellhole? How about Mexico or anywhere in South or Central America? I could go on and on, but you get the picture. Come on -- tell us which of these paradise nations you prefer to ours! If you think we live under authoritarian rule, you are a fool. Perhaps you'd prefer Egypt where they held a ten minute trial yesterday and decided to put more than 700 people to death. You think we live under authoritarian rule because you have no clue what that even means. You've never actually seen authoritarian rule so you imagine that is exists in the freest nation on earth. The united States of America.
Do you not appreciate what you have here???

 

I agree that revolution is an option but do not think that it will have the desired results. What we need is a revolution in education as this would change things in a big hurry.

There is a reason why, when the Church got power, it set about destroying the 700 year old schools of Philosophy and various ancient libraries of antiquity. If people are educated in certain things such as how to think and what constitutes a good argument then they will start to ask uncomfortable questions.

Questioning the Church got you tortured and burned for over 1000 years.

Today we still do not teach our kids how to think. Almost no Gr. 12 graduates can tell you what a logical fallacy even is never mind understand what constitutes a good argument.

Every day we hear the talking heads of Politics and the Mass Media spewing fallacy which is readily consumed by an ignorant electorate.

There is no such thing as an effective Democracy when the masses are not educated in the basic principles of how to think and political science.

 

I would agree with most of what you said in general, except your comment about democracy.

Democracy is an abysmal form of government, which is why our founders gave us a republic - and that, in a nutshell, is at the bottom of what all the angst and disagreements are all about.

Amerikans have been duped into thinking we're a democracy - and as such they believe, "whatever the majority of the people want, it should be so". When in reality, in a republic, the majority cannot control the minority, b/c the law prevents them from using the government against others.

Since that truth has been turned on its head, and the government has be unchained from its constitutional bounds, and we are no longer a republic - the majority, or coalitions of special interests that make up a majority, have picked the lock to the public treasury and built up an army of bureaucrats that make law outside of the Constitution, and outside of Congress. They have the power of government behind them, fully armed, and fully prepared to visit violence upon anyone who dares to try standing up to them.

The liberals are obvious thugs, and they use the EPA, BLM, Dept. of Agriculture, Dept of Education, etc, etc; but the neoconservatives that make up a majority in the Republican Party are just as willing to misuse the government to impose their will on the Amerikan people thru the DEA, DHS, Patriot Act, etc, etc...

What you end up with in the end - is laws against everything, an empty treasury, and a complete breakdown in the society.

What we're witnessing today, is the collapse of a once great nation/society as it succumbs to the ravages of corruption, unlimited government, endless wars, and a debauched currency. We are literally living in very historic times - but not for the right reasons.

Amerika is dying, b/c America abandoned the rule of law and adopted democracy - we are doing everything our Founding Fathers and history have warned us against. Amerika deserves to die, and Amerikans deserve to lose their freedom and suffer for their ignorance and corruption.

 

I agree with everything you have stated. I do think that democratic actions within our country could effect change without revolution.

Where I think you are really on point is your comments in relation to our rejection of all the principles that made us great. Rule of Law, Bill of Rights, Constitution and respect for "individual freedoms".

The left tends to use fallacious utilitarianism to override individual freedoms (Utilitarianism seeks to make laws on the basis with what is good for the collective with complete disregard for individual rights and freedoms)

We hear arguments such as " If it saves one life" all the time. Is this really a good argument for making a law ? Really ? Truly ?

If so then we better ban skiing, boating and skidoo's tomorrow as "it would save lives". Cars are the biggest killer so get rid of those immediately and realistically folks should not be allowed to get out of bed in the morning as they might fall and break their neck walking down a flight of stairs.

We now live in a country where abject stupidity is routinely accepted as "good logic".

We had some band of ********s fly a plane into a building 13 years ago and most in the country are still cowering in fear so scared that they are willing to give up their rights and freedoms. Such people deserve to live as slaves.

Stalin used "fear of a foreign threat" to take away rights. "Security for the Motherland"
Hitler did the same thing calling it "Fatherland Security"
Now we have "Homeland Security" justified on the same basis.

The possibility of harm coming to a US citizen from a terrorist action is orders of magnitude lower than the threat of harm from driving to work in the morning.

Yet, we have our President stating " If we want increase security we have to give a little" in reference to NSA spying on every citizen. Is the threat from these terrorists somehow greater than the threat of Nuclear Holocaust during the Cuban Missile crisis ? I do not recall Kennedy giving licence to the CIA carte blanch to spy on every US citizen.

There are people that are going to do bad things and there always will be. They are going to shoot people, make bombs and so on. Did dynamite not exist 200 years ago ?

The right also uses fallacious utilitarianism. It was Bush that started Homeland Security in the first place using fear of a foreign threat and taking us into a useless war ( "Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof—the smoking gun—that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." )

When the right is not using fallacious Utilitarianism they are violating the constitution by making laws on the basis of religious belief.

 

Great example of normalcy bias.

And a great example of ignorance of history.