Is Russia playing us?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by tecoyah, Mar 24, 2017.

?

Is the United States becoming pointlesss worldwide?

  1. No...we are as strong as ever.

    20.0%
  2. Yes...no one takes us seriously banymore.

    10.0%
  3. We have left the room and can't even hear the world.

    30.0%
  4. ....other.............

    40.0%
  1. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We dropped the world leader ball when we put Obama the incompetent doosh in the white house. Here's him pledging his corruption. Yet back when Obama was President, Russia was never a threat. You are so desperate that it's merely pathetic.
     
  3. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is it that EVERY FREAKIN'TIME someone brings up a question about Trumpco that does not paint these people in a pleasant lite, you ignorant Trumphumpers divert away and try to bash ANYONE who is not the actual President?

    Guess what people, Obama isn't there anymore and HillBill never was...perhaps it's time to accept the fact you got duped by a man who made a great living doing so to others. Now......care to answer the actual question?
     
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  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why? Because Trump is their new god.
     
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  5. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I answered that we are as strong as ever, but not for exactly the reason you might expect.

    When a country holds the economic position the US holds there is no such thing as inaction. Choosing not to act is an act of its own. Even the slightest sound bite of our leaders as regards world actions have consequence.

    Its not doing nothing that bothers me. Its the consequences of doing nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
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  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Russia is supporting anti-U.S. insurgents in Afghanistan — and through them, terrorists, top U.S. national security leaders say.


    What isn't clear is why.

    Well, that is exactly what we did when the Soviets were in Afghanistan... Now, importantly, this shows that Russia is still quite hostile to us, i.e. still has a Cold War mentality. Not that Putin's apprentice Trump will see it that way, of course..
     
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  7. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    They are pointing out the collectives total lack of credibility. As for your question. The whole Russia thing was ginned up to explain away how Hillary and her 1.2 billion dollar campaign lost. They don't want to lose their jobs so they need to feed the masses an excuse for their own incompetents.
     
  8. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is it that EVERY FREAKIN'TIME someone brings up a question about Trumpco that does not paint these people in a pleasant lite, you ignorant Trumphumpers divert away and try to bash ANYONE who is not the actual President?

    Guess what people, Obama isn't there anymore and HillBill never was...perhaps it's time to accept the fact you got duped by a man who made a great living doing so to others. Now......care to answer the actual question?
     
  9. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    Is Russia playing us? No. You give them to much credit because you need a scapegoat.
     
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  10. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't get too upset, they see this as crazy in their own way as we do.

    To me it feels like they have suddenly taken up a previously liberal position and are defending it aggressively. Sort of like going from a pro-life position into saying that all women should get pregnant just to have an abortion, because abortion is a really good thing.

    Suddenly now its good to support Russian activities everywhere and condemning them for anything is unthinkable. Interesting switch.
     
  11. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean, tecoyah, America has just started to heal. Give her some time. ;-)

    As for the computer thing, America invented the computer and most of the software. How could the Russians hack the U.S. elections or something?
     
  12. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Er, yes. MAGA - "retreat, dig in, protect"
     
  13. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I used to joke that the best way to make republicans pro-choice would be for Obama to be pro-life... with this Russia thing, it makes me think there was more truth to it than I thought.
     
  14. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well you lost the leader of the free world privilege when you elected Trump, I believe that goes to Germany now. And US world leadership is crumbling, imo world leadership is based on the size of your economy, if you look at GDP the US is still the biggest economy in the world, however if you look at GDP based on purchasing power it's China first, US second, India still a distant third but with record growth. It will be interesting to see how the US economy fares under Trump, import taxes and big spending should erode US world leadership even further.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The other side is interesting too. Democrats were the "can't we all just get along?" party as regards Russia for decades.

    I think the change started with Prez Bill Clinton, who used war hawkishness to bolster his popularity. That all sort of blossomed into the idea that democrat leaders could somehow make everyone happy. Socially liberal and fiscally moderate and so on. Democrats thought they could find a perfect balance in the same way movie producers think they can find the perfect movie format and then produce it over and over again to make billions. What gets lost is believable integrity.

    I think Russia is a real problem. I think Clinton would have handled it better than Trump. I don't think complete sycophantic capitulation to Putin and Russia is a respectable behavior for our President. But I can't help but feel this position is also an example of a larger problem within the democrat party.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  16. Ole Ole

    Ole Ole Banned

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    EU without UK and France are likely Chinese strenght in economy in national debt both over 11 trillion USD.
     
  17. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Clearly our leaders are largely occupied in a protracted wrestling match with the ever aggressive leftist msm.
     
  18. Wrathful_Buddha

    Wrathful_Buddha Well-Known Member

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    Other-

    People caught up in the Red scare are being played by the Deep State. Everything else that's happening was inevitable.
     
  19. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like this.

    People caught up in the Deep State scare are being played by Russia. Who will profit greatly from a friendly, hands off US policy as they use military and subterfuge to take soviet satellite states back again.
     
  20. Wrathful_Buddha

    Wrathful_Buddha Well-Known Member

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    If that happens, I guess Russia would, but why should that concern me? Wikileaks has revealed that the Deep State is a very real thing, so I benefit from their defeat. Everything you brought up is the wild speculation of a sore loser.
     
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  21. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are surrounding Russia with missiles and NATO, plus American troops. After Bush promised Russia after the implosion of the USSR we would not move one inch eastward. You know, so they would not feel threatened.

    What would happen if Russia could surround the US with such forces? And did. Would it make us paranoid, angry, pissed off? How would that affect our relations with Russia? What if Russia was wealthy and powerful enough to put sanctions on us for invading the middle east, taking out and killing their elected leaders? How would we feel about that? What if Russia was able to sanction us so that our people suffered? What would we think?

    We are the nation who is trying to create a new cold war, not Russia. So, we can only blame Russia if we are idiots, or satanic liars.
     
  22. Ole Ole

    Ole Ole Banned

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    United States cannot invade Egypt reserves and Iran's reserve and Algeria proffs Armed Forces but Russia can with theys reserve force from Europe one million man. This I Think.
     
  23. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    It's only a problem if you want to provide a 'check' on Russian growth and influence within Eurasia. If on the other hand, one acknowledges that Russia is the premier power in Eurasia and that the collapse of Russia would mean the collapse of the Eurasian States, you realize that for better or worse, we need Russia.

    When you consider the tactical nuclear weaponry that both nations possess(and even Trump was competent enough to know that), it became all the more imperative to establish good relations with the Russians. Though I don't want to do so by capsizing or by having a foreign puppet in the White House(if true.)


    The issue is how Russia would grow and influence itself within the Eurasian continent. Would it respect its neighbors and would it govern itself in a just manner to those neighbors? In other words, Crimea voted to join the Russian Federation. Regardless of whether it was pre-invasion or post-invasion, if we really want to respect INTL law, we would respect the Crimean Vote.

    Likewise, we should have opposed the coup of the democratically-elected Ukrainian President, and now the sectarian violence and conflict from Neo-Nazi separatists from that part of Ukraine. If the Ukrainians wanted to enter an economic arrangement with the Russians, that would be in their national interests to do so.

    So are we really for 'freedom and democracy' in Ukraine, if we oppose decisions the Ukrainians make that go against our 'own'?(If I agreed with the policy of checking Russia.)

    The reason for checking Russia, would be that an effective check would have supported the free and independent states from the former USSR block, as well as to avoid what would be ethnic bloodshed. But if the Russian Check inevitably grows into agitation and then later conflict, the check would prove not only to be counterproductive but against our interests.

    Likewise, we've seen with South Ossetia and Georgia that Russia declared it a defensive war and after having accomplished security in those areas, the Russians fell back. Madam Clinton may not like the 'Nationalistic' Foreign Policy of the Russians, but that's how they see the world map. To secure the Russian borders, and if possible those nations that do want to rejoin the Russian Federation can feel free to do so.

    We can point to Russia's violations of human rights in its own country and yes the assassination of its journalists. There are many areas to oppose Russia on. However, as it relates to the Eurasian/European conflict, there's an easy solution: Just have Russia join NATO.

    Seriously, NATO Charter stipulates that allied nations cannot fight each other. Having Russia join NATO and thus to provide protection to the Eurasian States, is the greatest guarantee to Eurasia that Russia won't swallow them, and that the alliance is not meant to be offensive against the Russians.
     
  24. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Curious about that proof from wikileaks.

    As I understand it most of it covered CIA operations, which is not "Deep State" its just ongoing secret operations aimed at keeping the US secure. Quite a few of these operations are diplomatically embarrassing. I'd agree that some are misguided, but the release of this information only serves those who want to damage the US.

    The other side of the Deep State ruse is the bureaucratic framework that has to exist for our political system to work. A pretty normal mix of liberals and conservatives work at keeping all the paperwork flowing and they tend to hold positions that span more than one administration.

    All of it is pure BS and does nothing to make our politics clear or better serve the people of the US.
     
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  25. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia's methods are bloody and underhanded. I do not see them as a unifying force in Eurasia as they use violence and deception to further their aims. They are doing everything they can to disrupt first world aid to these areas. That might be okay if it seemed like Russia cared about the people, but Russia regularly uses violent para-military groups as provocateurs and general hired muscle. There is no accountability for the men in these groups who kill and maim people who demonstrate against Russia's influence. And that not even mentioning all the assassinations.

    I have no respect for anyone who admires Russia, its leaders, or its methods.
     

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