Is sea level rising and whyare

I am one of the few active posters that took the Government course in this topic. Got 98 percent on the test.

 

Neat...so why do you keep distracting to the ancient past and geological time or seasonal variations when the topic is Climate and its changes? What does sedimentation possibly have to do with global Ocean level rise? How can an Earthquake in Chile make the Florida coastal cities need to raise street levels?

https://www.miamirealestateguy.com/...west-avenue-1-to-2-feet-to-combat-rising-sea/

 

I am constantly astonished at what scientists are able to do
If you look at sub atomic particles... they not only know about these things... they measure spin, mass, and all sorts of stuff

Or look at astrophysics.... scientists are looking out incomprehensibly far in the distance... they tell us about quasars, black holes, all different sorts of suns, supernovas....etc.

I have only the faintest idea how they do this stuff. But for me... it seems perplexingly odd to suggest that scientists cannot do something because i do not understand how they “could” do it.

Scientists understand earths wobble, orbital wobbles, they understand how the shape of the earth changes as ice sheets melt, they understand how continents have moved around going back 100s of millions of years before we were here... and lots of others stuff that i find astonishing. And all of that stuff is beyond my comprehension. So i am not convinced by the suggestion that scientists cannot do things because you and i think they are very complicated

Is it very complicated to figure the changing size of the ocean basins.... yes. Do i think scientists can figure that out to some high accuracy, no.

But is that question really important for our discussion? I think it is not. The processes that change the size of ocean basins are very long term. Yes, north America is drifting... but airline schedules are not going to change because of these changing distances... so, even though these distances are changing..,it is simply not relevant in ever context. And while ocean basin size changes due to continental drift might be significant over 100s of thousands of years.. it is not significant over decades

But... lets now make the assumption that you are correct... these factors are extremely important for sea levels even in the short term.... and let also assume you are correct that scientists are unable to observe and calculate such changes.... even so, your concern still needs another improbable reality to be true.

We are now talking about shifts in the RATE of sea level change over decades. You are concerned about the impact of seismic shifts on this measurement... and if this is a concern... then you must also be suggesting that these seismic shifts are highly variable... so that the earths crust moved dramatically less in the 1800s. And now moves much faster, ... not only that... this accelerated movement of the earths crust has entirely gone unnoticed by all scientists

All of the above is possible... but i think highly unlikely

It is also possible that new water is being created by combining of oxygen and hydrogen... that is also unlikely. It is also possible that new water is coming in from space, or that water is being spontaneously generated in the earths core....

Suggesting that something is possible, does not make it likely
And i think it is unlikely that the earths seismic movements are Changing erratically over decades and that scientists have not noticed this.

So... if we agree that earth’s seismic movements happen slowly, and relatively constantly.... that would not account for the apparent short term acceleration of sea level rise

 

Those are seasons, like weather, not climate

 

Climate changing is the norm and I don't think anybody ever denied that, especially me. In fact I'm the one that points out to people like you how fast the climate changed in the LIA pre industrialization. What are you smoking

 

Once again your mind goes myopic to a winner takes all single cause hypothesis. Nobody is saying the constant shifting of the earth crust is the sole cause of sea level change. We are merely pointing out just one more immeasurable factor in sea level change that makes a single cause of that phenomenon impossible to give full credit to especially when you are talking about centimeters of rise or fall over the oceans of the entire planet over a hundred years of more. An exception to this would be huge events like the end of the last ice age where massive amounts of ice melted extremely fast and sea levels rose in tandem. We're talking three to six feet per century there which denotes an obvious cause and effect.


"Global sea-level rise at the end of the last Ice Age. Southampton researchers have estimated that sea-level rose by an average of about 1 metre per century at the end of the last Ice Age, interrupted by rapid ‘jumps’ during which it rose by up to 2.5 metres per century.
Global sea-level rise at the end of the last Ice Age ...

 

To put it bluntly, you are describing two entirely different things and assuming they are the same thing here. What you are describing is both sublimation and ice melt. Neither are the same. Both have a similar outcome vis a vis displacement. And displacement is also a function in sea state level.

So why be superficial about it? Ice melt has happened. We know this. This is why the land bridge between Russia and Alaska is no longer walkable. The initial melt of ice from the end of the last ice age added something like 200 feet of sea state. But, that clearly doesn't reflect what is happening today. And sure, you can be hysterical about "future ice melt" where models calculate the entirety of all ice melting, but that isn't likely, is it? So, we do have gradual sea level rise which is calculated in millimeters in the single digits a year. Meaning that decades are required to ever see an inch of sea state rise happen. I know, this is inconvenient for the hysteria, it is, none the less, the facts we have.

And then, there is an entirely different conversation about what happens at the edges of continental plates where sublimation happens. And tectonic movement isn't the only culprit, water removal can also cause sublimation and land sinking. Just ask folks in Florida these days. So, land can, and does sink either as caused by compaction or tectonic action. And in these areas, obviously, the sea state is effected. That doesn't mean it's a function of more ice melt.

So many other factors also impact sea level. The temperatures of the oceans, the displacement of the oceans by new land masses within them. It's utterly stupid to not recognize those inputs.

 

Miami is sinking because too many folks are draining the aquifers below the peninsula of Florida, and the land is sinking. The city is sublimating to the ocean. Has almost nothing to do with climate change. The topography is compacting and as it does, the city sinks.

I would also point out that if you ignore basic concepts like displacement, your credibility is going to decay, rapidly.

 

Your hypothesis has absolutely no evidence to support is and in fact much to dispute it. Earthquake activity being but one.

 

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And, although you may quibble, it is also pretty clear that the rate of change is increasing.
And, yes, it is true that many things can impact sea levels... sedimentation, seismic forces, etc.... those are long term impacts that do not change erratically from one decade to another. And to the extent that the rate of those impacts might change over a few decades .... that is something that would be noticed by people... but no one has noticed a large change in sedimentation, or seismic activity. So even though we agree that these things DO have an impact on sea levels... we have no reason to believe the extent of that impact is dramatically changing.

So, just to reiterate
I DO NOT CLAIM THERE IS ONLY ONE FACTOR THAT IMPACTS SEA LEVELS
I do not deny past ice ages
I do not deny the little ice age
I do not deny sedimentation impacts sea levels
I do not deny that seismic activity impacts sea levels
I do not deny that pumping subsurface water may reduce land levels locally
I do not deny that levy systems can reduce sedimentation and therefore impact local sea levels
And i also suspect that there are many other factors that i have not mentions
And for these reasons..l deny your claim that i only accept a single reason for sea levels is incorrect

What i WAS talking about was the CHANGING RATE of sea level rise
And while many factors impact sea levels.... most of these factors can be ruled out in connection with a changing rate of sea level rise....

For instance.... pumping water produces a local impact
Levees also are local
Sedimentation and seismic activity is long term and constant
The impact of the ending little ice age is long term, and declining
Sea rapid sea level changes during large ice ages are not what we are dealing with

So again... i am NOT denying the many potential impacts on sea level
I am noticing an unexplained recent phenomenon of an increase in the rate of sea level rase that has happened in a geologically rapid pace.. and i am discounting all of the potent causes for this phenomena that you have mentioned because they are either local, or ling term and constant.... and for these reasons could not be implicated in what is a global, short term, and non constant phenomenon... ie the recent acceleration of sea level rise

One more time.....I DO NOT DENY THAT MANY FACTORS INFLUENCE SEA LEVELS
what i am talking about is WHAT CAN CAUSE THE APPARENT ACCELERATION IN THE RATE OF SEA LEVEL RISE.... in order to discuss that phenomena., perhaps you could show indications that seismic or sedimentation factors have recently changed dramatically .

Actually, i am not not talking about the negative impact of sea level rise
I am, at this point, ONLY talking about an apparent acceleration of the rate of sea level rise... and what might be causing that phenomena.

After we resolve that discussion, we can move on to discussing potential impacts and whether it is something that should concern us

Sorry... that is not the topic
We have left the last large ice age many thousands of years ago

Once again.... just to be. Absolutely clear.
I am proposing that acceleration of the rate of sea level rise MIGHT be a canary in the coal mine.... i propose that the canary did not die of natural causes

 

The good news is that there actually is data that supports my representation of the evidence. Too bad you're uninterested in actual facts, and only your constant braying of your religious preference...Subsidence is a very real problem for FL. Suck all the water out of the rock layers below you and ultimately, the ground collapses under you. Basic stuff here.

 

The reason is we're only about 20,000 years out of an ice age and the earth is constantly changing.

Just be glad you weren't around 14,000 years ago. Those guys must have been burning some serious carbon.

Oh and by the way, increases are being measured in mm.

 

6 inches in 140 years.

 

I would like to see this evidence, along with the data showing this new geological effect for Kentucky as we also live on Karst Terrain and use ground water. I do not want to sink into the River.

 

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First you acknowledge that there are many factors that effect sea level and then you summarily dismiss them as irrelevant and circle back to your one true love, AGW.
Then you try to justify this by claiming sea levels are rising at a rapidly increasing rate which just isn't true. It's predictions and computer models that predict rapidly rising sea levels not facts on the ground and remember who inputs their data into these computers. "Garbage in garbage out". Also remember that in recent years sea levels actually dropped and I gave you a NASA link on that which you ignored.
You also dismiss the truly rapid post ice age sea level rise of six to nine feet and sometimes more per century as ancient history and irrelevant when in reality we are still exiting that era. With the exception of the recent LIA period that ice has continued to melt and is still doing so as it will until we head into the next ice age. As with climate itself you believe there should be and is some level of ice in earth that is normal and it should stop melting at this ideal in your mind normal amount. That's just not reality.

 

Sea level has not risen here in my lifetime. Maybe there's a big convex meniscus out in the middle of each major body of water that can't be measured on shorelines or something.

 

One thing that should change with sea level raise is the spin rate of the earth IE the length of the day should increase as more mass move further from the spin axis.

So far while the earth is indeed slowing there is not a good match between that slowing an the assume melting of the ice cap an any raise in the sea level.

 

Due to errosion and the fact we are still thawing from the last ice age, there will be rising seas over the next 1,000 plus years. Deal with it and quit trying to create theories without verifiable proof.

 

It is not possible to measure global sea levels. There is no valid reference point.

Yes, let's do that.

Models are not science. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. That's all science is. See Karl Popper's philosophy.

Global sea levels cannot be accurately measured; there is no valid reference point.

Global sea levels cannot be accurately measured; there is no valid reference point.

 

Splendid!

You can't even measure global sea levels. You have no valid reference point to work off of...

The flow of thermal energy does not cause sea levels to rise.

 

These guys should have watched their carbon output.

 

It's not every day you get to say "convex meniscus".

 

Study the RATE of change.

Study the RATE of change.

Ireland is very concerned about the amount of land they are losing to the ocean and the rate at which they are losing it.

The increasing frequency and severity of storms, drought, and wildfires are not hypothetical or imaginary.

 

Not one tide gauge worldwide shows a change in rate. The only way to show a change is to graft on the very different satellite data to the tide gauge record.

Not even the IPCC concludes any of the weather is caused by climate change. The statistics show no trend in droughts or wildfires and we have actually been in a tornado drought. Some of the most severe storms and flooding has happened in the past and now due to stupid building in prone areas are floods affecting costs.