Is that pork? Alcohol? Sorry, sir, you have to see another cashier.

I don't live in the UK so I'm just sharing my opinion. But we have pharmacists here in the U.S. who have refused to dispense birth control in violation of their oath and their professional license. Those pharmacists need to find another line of work too... for example.

 

what? are they selling Herrings?...

M&S's store policy is wrong...the company can do as it wishes but in a secular society personal religion needs to be eliminated from public use...if I was in charge of M&S my policy would be "we serve everyone regardless of our personal beliefs, if you can't get past that find employment elsewhere"...not doing so leaves the door open for refusing service for other personal beliefs including discrimination against gender, gays, people of colour, different religions, ethnic groups...
multicultural societies need to be more secular, not less secular...

 

Again, it's not M&S policy to refuse to serve non-Muslims. So yet another red-herring.

 

False analogy. It's not M&S policy to refuse to serve non-Muslims.

 

you're just nit picking words...M&S has in it's actions sanctioned it's employees to discriminate against customers based on religious beliefs...employees are the public face of the corporation and represent the corporation...M&S through it's policy condones religious discrimination...

 

Nope, I'm un-picking false propaganda and exposing bigotry.

 

I had a similar debate with my MD friend...he claimed it was a right of a MD to refuse treatment if it disagreed with his/her personal moral or religious views(in this case the prescription of birth control to single women and abortion), to which I countered the MD could have easily chosen a medical specialty that didn't involve birth control or abortions and there wouldn't be a moral conflict(he conceded)...

 

M&S condoning religious bigotry is policy, so not propaganda but fact...the M&S employee is the intolerant bigot...

the last person I fired had issues had with serving a gay customer....a supplier became a former supplier when he let known his disgust with "paki's and coloureds"... I have zero tolerance for bigots no matter what their colour, gender, sexual leanings, religion or ethnic origin, if they state those opinions to me personally they're done...

 

M&S does not have a policy of refusing to serve non-Muslims.

 

Would Muslims bake a cake for a gay wedding?lol

 

Misrepresentation of my position. I never said it was the pharmacy's policy to refuse birth control, I said individual pharmacists refused on their own to fill the prescriptions and they should seek another line of work if their religion (or any other personal belief) will interfere with their job duties, particularly in the context of professional licensure.

 

Right. Physicians take an oath to act in the best interests of their patients and are--beyond that--both ethically and legally-bound to do so. If such would constitute a breach of their personal morality or feelings, then they have no business in the profession. If Muslims don't want to handle alcohol or pork, they ought not apply for a job at a purveyor of said items.

 

lets extend that hypothetically to a Muslim cop and judge...what if there was an honor killing where a father murdered his daughters for inappropriate behavior(it happened in canada) could a Muslim cop agree with the father and refuse to arrest the father? could a Muslim judge refuse to convict and sentence the father? ...

 

no sorry, a stores representatives are the public face of the store, if the employee/representative can openly discriminate and do so with the stores blessing the store is refusing to serve customers...M&S has officially encouraged and approved religious discrimination...

 

No M&S customer has ever been denied service on the basis of religion....NONE.....This is a canard.

 

Potentially never-ending accommodations for anyone who complains loudly enough...

 

cannard ? no it's disgusting...M&S encourages it's employees to treat customers with disrespect and discrimination...

where I formerly lived there were marriage commissioners employed by the government who refused to marry gays and lesbians because it conflicted with their religious beliefs...the commissioners who refused said gays and lesbians could find other commissioners also employed by the government, exactly the same as with M&S...they're claiming a right to discriminate based on religious beliefs...

the Supreme Court disagreed..."contrary to fundamental principles of equality in a democratic society" and must be rejected.

"Both of the possible amendments offend the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Either of them, if enacted, would violate the equality rights of gay and lesbian individuals,"

"The Supreme Court has repeatedly confirmed that freedom of religion is not absolute and that, in appropriate cases, it is subject to limitation," he said. "This is clearly one of those situations where religious freedom must yield to the larger public interest."

the result being even though gays and lesbians could have found other marriage commissioners to perform the marriage the court ruled commissioners cannot refuse, perform all secular marriages or if religious beliefs make that impossible quit...

 

Employees of the state have less religious freedoms than employees of the private sector. A judge is bound by law to enforce laws as they are written. While judges can set precedents with alternative interpretations of law, there are limits to these alternative interpretations.

A judge doing what you described would be removed from office regardless of religious beliefs.

Similarly, a cop who ignores a law due to religious beliefs will be removed from their position as well.

 

obviously it will depend on where you live as to how and where the laws are enforced...

and they should be imo...

 

No argument here. But, for example, a Muslim cop or judge couldn't get away with doing what you said here.

In Pakistan... well....

 

It's not the same thing at all. M&S is not discriminating against anybody. Again, I repeat, M&S have no policy in place which discriminates against customers' on the basis of religion or anything else. If you have proof that they have, please present it.

 

So your fallback is that if the company yields to the pressure of an extreme few and makes it official company policy, that makes everything OK? So if some Christian employees refused to serve gay people and M&S made it an official policy, that would be fine?

 

The hypothesis was that it was their religious beliefs that caused them to refuse to serve old people. My point was that if you yield to such religious beliefs, at what point do you stop? What about women not dressed "modestly"; I could easily see the same subgroup of Muslims extending their prejudices to not serving such women and justifying it based on their religious beliefs.

 

M&S does not have a policy refusing non-Muslims service. What can you not grasp about that?

 

I think you missed his point, how about if I rephrase it: "Okay, so if some Christian employees told a gay person in line that they had to go to another cashier and M&S said that was acceptable, would that be fine by you as well?"