I'm not convinced it ever was, certainly not significantly more (or less) so in the US than any other developed nation.
As a guy who started out as a $78/mo Army Private ($99 before taxes and other deductions), attended West Point, had a fun and rewarding time in the Army and a second career in aerospace, now happily retired in a great home with a walk-in tub, jacuzzi, SUPERWIFE and a son who is a Cornell/Fordham Law graduate, I can only shout a resounding YES!!
Congratulations, but just because you were able to succeed doesn't demonstrate that the American Dream was real, since that was based on the idea that literally anyone had the same opportunity. I mean, given how long ago you imply that would have been, at least half the US population wouldn't have been free to take the route you did.
You ninja'd me. Robots have been R&R labor for years. AI will, very, very soon, R&R intellectual white and bright collar jobs. And self driving vehicles? Cars, ships and air craft. The future will either look like Skynet or the Forbin project won, or maybe we'll all turn into Eloi from the Time Machine. Love me some Star Trek and the holo deck recreation and a hole in the wall that will give you whatever you want for free. Will we evolve into the brave people in Star Trek, or devolve into the lumps in "Wally"? Right now, the most immediate danger to our society is most similar to "Brave New World". Imagine a totalitarian state, where a nanny state keeps you sedated and comfortable. ITMT, video games keep getting more fun to play. And there's always Fritos and Diet Coke.
Anyone can join the Army. Unless you are a druggie, have no education or are overweight. If you are any of these,you're probably a Democrat and wouldn't make it in the Army anyway. So, its obvious that you haven't set your goals to do anything but fail. A self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't think you can succeed... you won't.
the future is no different than the past, it merely offers new challenges and new opportunities. did you know buggy whips are still being made? it may be a very select market, but the past still exists. it's time we stopped insisting that everything automated is good and embrace the human element. there will always be a market for the human. though internet sources and big box stores have forced many of the small-timers out of business, there is still a place for the mom and pop enterprises that built the economy upon which the giants have built their empires. the american dream will never die. we merely have to scale back our expectations. we have allowed influencers, malcontents and political animals to convince us that we all deserve the best life has to offer. this is a lie, it has always been a lie. the best is something we strive for, something we keep striving for until the day we die. i'm an old man who has managed to accumulate a substantial pile of filthy lucre, but still i build and invest and risk. i do all this because the american dream is not dead and i don't want to feel responsible for helping it die. i know that others will follow in my footsteps. some will succeed, some will fail, many will make do with what they earn and live their own version of the dream. the idea that we must alter the dream simply because technologies have changed is ludicrous. there is still a place for even the least of us in the dream, we must simply remember that not everyone will reach the heights to which we all aspire. talent, timing, luck, effort and a thousand other variables determine our place in the world. the trick is to be satisfied and never stop trying for something more.
Personally I think the new dream with what future tech is offering us is a lot better than the old dream of the 50s, which seems very boring to me.
So anyone can join apart from all the people who can't and you assume a whole load would inevitably fail anyway? I also expect a woman couldn't have followed the same route you did back when you did it. Again, I'm not saying it isn't possible for anyone to succeed, only that your personal story alone isn't evidence of anything other than your own ability to do so in the specific circumstances you happened to find yourself in. Why are you presuming I never set goals or achieved them? Of course, you also presumed I was American, a Democrat and wouldn't make it in the army, and only one of those was (probably) correct, so whose failing now? I agree with the underlying principle though, but that's equally true regardless of where you are, so doesn't support the specifically "American Dream". Also, regardless of where you are there can be difficult or impenetrable barriers put up (intentionally or not), which make it extremely difficult if not impossible for some people to succeed, certainly within specific areas that they could have otherwise thrived. And those kind of barriers are certainly no less common in the US compared to other developed nations. We can all dream but there's nothing special about the American one.
And that has put the 'conservative' side of me on red alert! Human nature being what it is, and always has been, what we're probably going to get instead of some kind of utopia will be "Brave New World" and "1984". It seems clear now that George Orwell was the "Hari Seldon" of our post-WWII world.
An obvious non-American waxing philosophic about "the American Dream"... I LOVE IT!! LOLOL Women can go to West Point now so TODAY they CAN "follow the same route" I did. All you are saying is that achieving success is difficult. I totally agree. THAT is the CHALLENGE. I keep remembering my roommate at West Point. He was raised in a urine-smelling tenement in Spanish Harlem, mom a seamstress, no dad around. His high school was closed a lot due to arson and vandalism. He overcame. He succeeded. He's a physician today. Thinking failure is the only option is the best way to achieve failure.
The "American Dream" as we envision it was the influx of money spent rebuilding the world after WW2. We were pretty much the only game in town. Wages were good, things were good, the middle class had money to spend. Houses were built, kids were born and educated, and grew up to earn and spend. Now, we are stagnating. We are putting off the inevitable by deficit spending. And no one really knows what the "inevitable" really is. Part of the "inevitable" is going to be a push to get people off the couch and into jobs. And there are constitutional problems with forcing people to starve or work. In California, you have a right to be fed by taxpayers and you cannot be forced to work. Why do you think we are importing foreign labor? Answer: they are deflationary. Not the best solution to our problems. But I can tell you that $20 used to be a lot of money. Now it's barely a meal for two at a fast food joint.
Hah, it apparently wasn't obvious until I essentially corrected your assumption I was American. Anyway, a viewpoint from the outside can often be useful and informative and part of my point is that the concepts encompassed within the phrase "The American Dream" (both positive and negative) aren't in any way unique to the US. Yes, they can today but couldn't in the past (pre-1970s I believe) so that can't be a factor in an ongoing "American Dream" existing continuously from the 1930s when the phrase was coined. No, I'm also saying that not everyone gets offered the same opportunities to succeed, in the US or anywhere else. The "American Dream" encompasses perfectly valid and positive ideas, but it's never been (and likely never will be) fully realised, again, in the US or anywhere else. That's why it's important to recognise it for what it is, rather than the OP implication that everything used to be great in the past but is so much worse today.
PC's killed typewriters and mass-produced cheap TV's killed the repair shop guy. AI is limited in what it will be able to do for the remainder of our lives. It sorts existing information. It isn't nearly as disruptive as the PC was to the typewriter industry. It is more like a cool browser at this point that picks the link for you and can write you a poem about a black lesbian rabbit in iambic pentameter if you so desire to hear one. It is good for repetitive jobs and making decisions a little faster. No more and no less. With anything there will be a tipping point at which there is no economic incentive to expand its use as the cost will outweigh the benefit. A good real world comparison is sure they can make a $10K electric riding mower, but how many people are gonna pay that kind of money to have one.
Is that why TWO MILLION people from all over the world have broken the law and risked their lives to get into America? Sounds like we definitely DO have something unique in "The American Dream". Send me your address. Its 2023. You are in dire need of a calendar. I'll send you one. You are definitely a Democrat. We don't get "offered" opportunities. We MAKE OUR OWN. I studied hard in school rather than drop out. I became an athlete (not my natural bent) in high school because I wanted to go to West Point. I could have quit when I didn't make it my first try so I Enlisted for a year to get in. I didn't stop increasing my qualifications. I earned an MBA and got a patent in my name. I volunteered for Jump School. I sought out new programs and more. Success is about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY... not gifts from on high.
We are stagnating because folks want a free ride on the government these days. Schools are preventing achievement by selecting students on their skin color, not their excellence. I couldn't agree more with you about inflation.
Yes I do believe that America will soon bounce back from this....... the darkest hour that she perhaps has ever had!!!! It would sure help though if Biden would decide to leave the dark side... the left hand path... and run to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus..... after all the man is around eighty!!!!!!!!
the past will always seem rather drab when compared to an unknown future, but that has nothing at all to do with the dream. it isn't about the tools that are used, it is about what you do with the tools that are available.
I would not want to have their lives at all! I guess we have different ideas on what kind of dream we want to live in. I think their advances that they bring humanity were and are wonderful, but theirs is not a way of life that I would ever want for myself.
Loads of people migrate (legally and illegally) to loads of different countries for all sorts of different reasons. For example, we have a specific issue here in the UK with many Middle Eastern and African migrants moving through continental Europe to specifically reach Britain. What do you mean by that exactly? I'm obviously not a member of an American political party or have ever voted for or even supported one (I don't even like any of the British political parties!). Could I suggest that rather than trying to lump me in to a convenient category so you can assume my beliefs and opinions, you actually try to understand what I'm personally saying? In that case, where does the implementation of the "American Dream" come in then? If it was entirely about individual choices and efforts, it wouldn't make the slightest difference which country you're in. Maybe my use of the word "offered" wasn't the best but I think you're making an unnecessary semantic point with it. It's about availability of opportunity and, in some cases, those opportunities being explicitly limited or blocked for certain types or classes of people. Anyone can apply to join the military but not everyone will be accepted (for valid reasons or not), anyone can work hard at school but not everyone will have the qualified teachers committed to supporting them (though no fault of their own), anyone can act with personal responsibility for ourselves but we're all still subject to the personal responsibility of others. The "American Dream" (and the wider concept behind it) isn't really about what you can do for yourself, it's about what we can do for each other. It isn't just about making people better, it's about making America (or where ever) better. The whole idea of "Well I was able to work my way up so everything is fine." is the exact opposite of the underlying point. It's also a fundamental part of the reason the "American Dream" has never fully existed (in the US or anywhere else).
Not yet but more evidence it's on it's way with the Biden plan to punish people who scrimp and save and borrow for their home responsibly and reward those who don't. The only thing hampering your upward mobility is your own commitment and efforts to it and government trying to punish you for it.
It's not people being shut out the future is about more and more people being shutdown for accomplishing it and we turn into a country of dependents. What's the point in trying to achieve it if the government will take it away and give it to people who didn't?
Yeah... The UK is a great place TOO! I love it! I'm especially fond of London... and Bath. I assumed you were American. May I suggest you try to communicate your beliefs and opinions a little more clearly? The American Dream is predicated on the extensive opportunities one has here as opposed to other countries. If you think that China, Mexico, Venezuela and so forth have the same opportunities for success and happiness we have here... then I suggest you read more. The "class" of people we are in is up to us to determine. Sit around soaking up welfare will put you in a lower class than someone that studies hard, gets a good job and succeeds in life. The American Dream is alive and well. I'm proof. (Why are you so negative?)
