Is the high cost of doctors in the U.S. a supply side issue?

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by kazenatsu, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    2,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Is the high cost of doctors in the U.S. partly a supply side issue?

    (Now I'm NOT saying bring in cheaper foreign doctors who are willing to work for less, like the U.K. has done with their national system)

    Expand access to medical schools, shorten the required education and investment times, and find ways to make the education and training cheaper.
    You're also probably going to have to pay higher salaries to teaching doctors to attract more of them, to be able to train more new doctors. So there is going to be an initial investment.

    Maybe if it didn't take people 4 years of college, followed by 4 years of medical school, followed by 4 more years of residency training to become a doctor, there'd be more doctors and they'd be willing to work for a little less.
    Maybe the entire situation needs to be more carefully analyzed to see if all of this is really necessary. I bet it could be possible to condense it down to a 3-year program.
    And maybe just require very good grades for 2 years in college to be accepted, instead of requiring 4 years.

    Another problem is there's not enough spots for all the applicants trying to get into medical school who are eligible. When there is a shortage of something, prices go up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    wyly likes this.
  2. perdidochas

    perdidochas Greeter Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    25,007
    Likes Received:
    3,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's called quality control. That said, there are alternatives, like becoming a Physicians Assistant (which don't take as long).
     
  3. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    27,353
    Likes Received:
    4,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I dont want marginal people becoming doctors.

    I'd rather have docs make more, thereby attracting smarter people who realise that enduring the process and taking the economic risk leads to a great return on their investment.
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    2,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It takes almost as long. Still takes 4 years of college, then 3 years in the medical school (instead of 4) and then a year and a half of apprenticeship (instead of 2 or 3 years of residency training). There's a reason there's not very many of them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  5. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,719
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that's a good assessment but reducing the training isn't the way forward...free tuition, more teaching hospitals, you can't increase the number of doctors until you have the facilities to train them...and you correctly point out more teaching MDs but that's a catch 22, as you need more MDs first ...

    we have the same issue in Canada, MDs are overloaded with work and don't have time to teach...and we don't have enough hospitals in which to teach, student space is at a maximum and we have far more applicants than we have room for...a good hospital costs at a minimum a billion dollars so politicians aren't keen to supply that as then they need to ask for more taxes... then the same people who complain about insufficient MDs start complaining about high taxes...it's a vicious cycle, the catch 22 from hell...
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    2,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes but you have to break the cycle at some point. Or at least gradually start breaking it.
    Like I stated, it's going to take some initial monetary investment from the government.

    And we're not going to see the results of the investment even begin to start paying off until 8 to 10 years later, so we better start the investment sooner rather than later.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  7. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,719
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree 100% but how are you going to get it done?....politicians never take the moral high ground and do the right thing when they're trying to get elected(they're after a paycheck and a pension)...every election their opening gambit is always TAX, TAX, TAX, the socialists want to raise your taxes and the base falls for it every time...it's also the base complaining they have inadequate healthcare they just don't want to pay for it.

    Generally people are the victim's of their own gullibility and greed, better services will cost more money. Our health should be of primary concern always, it's very expensive but what has more importance than staying alive? Unfortunately people tend to be short sighted about their health, it seems to only become a concern when they're ill and they'll pay anything and everything to get better. When they're healthy they have no interest in contributing to a new teaching hospital. I don't know how you get past greed and shortsightedness.
     
  8. BaghdadBob

    BaghdadBob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    445
    Trophy Points:
    63
    YES.

    Gov't intervention & improper application of insurance has created an imbalance.
     
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    2,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe we could temporarily bring in some foreign doctors just to be the lower level teachers in the schools.

    To help compensate for some of the brain drain, taking doctors from other poorer countries, we could compensate by spending some extra money towards training some new doctors in those countries (since in those places the problem is more of a lack of financial resources rather than lack of human capital problem, and costs are a lot cheaper in these other foreign countries).
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  10. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,719
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the problem with "many" foreign MDs is that they're not qualified to practice medicine here(Canada and US), those who are qualified in countries with equivalent standards in 1st world countries have no need or wish to emigrate.

    I know from those MDs in the accreditation process here extremely few MDs from third world nations have the training necessary to be licensed here. So what quality of education are they gonna to supply to our med students if they're not qualified to practice medicine? If they're not trained and certified here we're getting dangerously unqualified MDs.
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    2,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's why they'd only be used in the lower level classes, nothing that involves teaching that's really critical.
     
  12. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,719
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I suppose but I think we have lots of people in various Uni level sciences that can do that very well.

    but even if what you suggest works you still have the problem of not enough hospitals. Each hospital has limited space for x number of students in various specialties at any one time, applicants far exceed spaces. It doesn't matter how many are eligible there's no room until there is another billion dollar plus hospital erected.
     
  13. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    27,353
    Likes Received:
    4,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Few want to take the time to do it themselves, and are unwilling to assume the risk, but many are more than happy to have government remove the rewards for the people that have done the sacrifice.

    Make sure the rewards are great and hardworking, smart people will make the sacrifice of time, money and effort
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  14. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    look to state university hospitals...

    the hospital, itself, is the learning center staff salaries are controlled by offsetting longevity (garrantied job) staff healthcare is provided free/low cost (usually, and can easily done cheaply without need for insurance), patients recieve top notch care utilizing latest techology & techniques, students benefit from 'on the job training' and lower tuition... a win win for everybody...

    private specialists drive up costs exponencially... aint no doc worth 2-5+ grand for a 5 minute consult in private hospital setting, while never actually seeing the patient...
     
  15. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    27,353
    Likes Received:
    4,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What would you charge for a million dollar liability?
     
    kazenatsu likes this.
  16. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    remove it from the individual , it belongs with the hospital (employer)...

    in private hospitals, patients pay for both parties liability costs and if they're seen by multiple docs their cost multiply exponentially...

    pay the docs a salary, no additional/seperate billing, ergo eliminate redundant costs to the patient...
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    2,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We might have to expand enrollment.

    What type of space exactly are we talking about? Money? Physical space? Enough doctors to supervise over trainees? Teaching hospitals not wanting to take on more students? The exact problem is going to need to be identified and dealt with.

    Maybe those hospitals are just going to have to make more spaces.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    2,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly. In a way the U.S. already has an "Affordable Care Act" in place, forcing patients to pay for insurance.
    In this case forcing medical patients to pay for liability insurance if anything goes wrong.
    Yes, the doctors are actually the ones paying these insurance policies, but when we have a legal system that holds doctors liable for millions of dollars in liability, those costs are going to get inextricably passed down to the patient.

    And just like with the "Affordable Care Act", we have the predictable rise in costs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  19. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    12,733
    Likes Received:
    3,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would say the cost of schooling and then their cost of malpractice insurance is what keeps their price so high. That and no one ever questions how much their services are because usually its all paid by insurance so there for they will charge what the insurance is willing to pay.
     
  20. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,271
    Likes Received:
    11,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have over 50,000 Indian docs iñ the US. They don't work for less. Foreing medical schools are excellent just leßs expeñsive.
     

Share This Page