Is the Trump impeachment dead?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Reasonablerob, Jun 22, 2019.

?

Is impeachmet dead?

  1. As a dodo

    29 vote(s)
    51.8%
  2. Very unlikely

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  3. Impossible to tell

    7 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. It still might happen

    7 vote(s)
    12.5%
  5. It will happen, there MUST be something!

    3 vote(s)
    5.4%
  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    34,509
    Likes Received:
    8,250
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why would it be stupid to impeach a president who is known to have obstructed justice?
     
  2. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,554
    Likes Received:
    855
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Impeaching for obstruction of justice alone is like arresting someone solely for resisting arrest. You might be able to abuse a pleb like that, but that's not gonna fly when it's the president.
     
  3. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    20,740
    Likes Received:
    5,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you're arrested and resist that is a legitimate crime, the legitimacy of the arrest itself is irrelevant. Just so obstruction requires no underlying crime. It is a crime against justice itself
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    34,509
    Likes Received:
    8,250
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My, what low standards we have achieved.
     
  5. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    725
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It wasn't, that's why Bill Clinton was prosecuted. Trump's actions are ambiguous at best.
     
  6. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    725
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But Trump cannot obstruct an investigation into a crime that didn't occur. He must have Mens Rea, a corrupt intent but he can't have that if there was nothing to cover up?
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    95,240
    Likes Received:
    12,405
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That wouldn't be and why Clinton was impeached even though the Democrats said OOJ was not an impeachable offense let alone grounds for removal. Trump is not known to have obstructed justice.
     
  8. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    31,422
    Likes Received:
    33,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    So far I have not seen any discussion here about the role played by the speaker of the House in impeachment proceedings. Recall that under Clinton, speaker Newt Gingrich was hellbent on impeaching him because he (and other Republicans) was actually hiding his own sexual scandals. He, like so many right wing television evangelist types, accused Clinton of destroying the moral fabric of society and needed to be punished for doing so. But behind closed doors, Gingrich was doing the same and worse. Republican Dennis Hastert who followed him as speaker was even more perverted. FAR more so. Compared to Clinton, both got off virtually scot free.

    Today, Pelosi does not pursue a course against Trump because she personally has nothing to hide. Therefore, any impeachment movement against him is and has always been dead in the water.
     
  9. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    12,493
    Likes Received:
    5,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Senate election is a popular vote so your point is?
     
  10. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    20,740
    Likes Received:
    5,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Quite a few Senators are convinced the majority of their electorate are as bigoted as they are. I think they are mistaken and will find that out in 2020. Once a vociferous minority elects you it becomes very hard to eschew their support even if they are alienating you from the majority. Trump himself is in that position now, how much more his toadies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  11. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    20,740
    Likes Received:
    5,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you intend to obstruct an investigation then the corrupt intent is against justice itself. It doesn't matter if the investigation is fruitful or not, you are not allowed to have impeded it.
     
  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    12,493
    Likes Received:
    5,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What you fail to recognize is Trump is not popular in the establishment Republican party and if they saw the electorate turn against him due to real evidence of real obstruction they would gleefully throw him under the bus. All the left is attempting here is to claim they won't impeach because the Senate won't convict even with hard evidence of an impeachable offense but the truth is there is no such evidence so hiding behind the senate is a convenient out.
     
  13. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He is known to have been accused of everything from treason to boiling babies alive but none of it is real.
     
  14. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    34,509
    Likes Received:
    8,250
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks to Mueller, they're really not ambiguous at all. How many prosecutors have spoken up to say they would move to indict based on what's contained in the Mueller report so far?
     
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    20,740
    Likes Received:
    5,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If the evidence in the Mueller report is not hard evidence then there is no such thing as hard evidence but the fact of the matter is that there is plenty of evidence and Trumpers don't care. The Republican Party is truly in thrall to their worst members; a cadre of alt.right and closet Nazi nabobs who want to turn the US into an authoritarian and ethnicist Fourth Reich. We need to sweep them clean in 2020 or it is very possible we will never get another chance as they definitely do NOT believe in playing by the rules of democracy. (or really any rules at all for that matter)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  16. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,554
    Likes Received:
    855
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So you think it's legit to come after someone when you know it's bullshit and then make up a crime after the fact? Trump may in fact be guilty of obstructing an obvious attempt to frame him. So ****ing what? Try to remove him from office for that, and you'll find yourself in a civil war. Your coup has failed, and the people responsible should just go hide before justice finds them.
     
  17. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    12,493
    Likes Received:
    5,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Congress has ostensibly read the Mueller report and if they think theirs hard evidence of obstruction they need to present it to the American people in impeachment proceedings. Put up or shut up. **** or get off the pot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    20,740
    Likes Received:
    5,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "I'm sorry I shot these uniformed police when they came to arrest me. but the warrant was issued in error "

    "Well, we have to let you go then, there was no crime, our bad"

    Law enforcement are not psychic, they do not swoop down on crime scenes and know all the circumstances before even exiting their cars They have to investigate to find things out and anyone who impedes such an investigation is guilty of a serious felony, sometimes even worse than the offense under question.

    I guess it comes from watching too many crime shows, where people lie to police and then nothing happens to them because it turns out they didn't murder the guy anyway. Try lying to a cop when he asks where you were at a certain time and place just because you don't want somebody else to know one time, see what happens in real life.

    Trump was accused of something and then tried to fire his accuser, or their representative. That is illegal. What I (and any other person not completely addled by the sight of a grown man covered in weird orange dye) can't figure is WHY anyone who was innocent would even do such a thing in the first place. Perhaps our Trumpers can answer that.
     
  19. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,044
    Likes Received:
    710
    Trophy Points:
    113
    False.

    Also false.
     
  20. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    725
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not a question of fruitful but whether it existed in the first place How can he have corrupt intent when the investigation will never find anything?
     
  21. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    725
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How so?
     
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    20,740
    Likes Received:
    5,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The corrupt intent is to impede the investigation. You can't just say, "I'm innocent, therefore I have every right to stop you from investigating me. "
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    86,064
    Likes Received:
    19,360
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Such is TDS. BELIEVE MUELLER, PROTECT MUELLER, IGNORE MUELLER.
     
  24. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    29,030
    Likes Received:
    9,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I thought Trump was going to be thrown out in 90 days? #TrumpWontLast90Days

    In case you forgot, your friends on this forum made plenty of threads saying such
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    95,240
    Likes Received:
    12,405
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Gingrich accused him of the crimes the OIC charged him with what are you talking about? If he had been so concerned about his private life don't you think he would have tried to bury impeachment instead?

    Which of them committed perjury in a federal court and before a grand jury? Gingrich had a failed marriage, so what? No one knew about Hastert until long after he left office but had it been found out while he was he would have been immediately gone. Did the Democrats remove Clinton?
     

Share This Page