Is the west prepared if Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Joe knows, Mar 20, 2022.

  1. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    I ask this out of sincere honesty because I don’t think the west is. What’s the plan? What happens if they do? Are there consequences or just the same old “if we act it will mean WWIII”? Does Russia already have the pants scared off of the west i.e. the United States or will we show some balls for Christ sake?
     
  2. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Joe, have you ever tried decaf, man? Yes, the situation sucks but you have to pull it together. You're going to drive yourself crazy.
     
  3. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    If Russia launches a small tactical nuke into Ukraine, which doesn't make sense as it will make the area uninhabitable. How many nuclear weapons do you want to exchange with Russia, you know, that we fire at them and then they fire theirs back?

    Do you want to hit them with a tactical nuke in the hopes that they don't return with a city buster? Or do you figure we should just hit them with everything?

    They have a 146 million people. How many of them should we fry because we are pissed off at Putin? Everything we hit won't be habitable for years. So they'll be massive refugee flows. How many displaced persons fleeing everything, with nothing, are you good with?

    The cartel wars in Mexico have probably cost a 100,000 lives. Are you pretty worked up about that too, or do you only get worked up over the tragedies that the US News Media whips?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
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  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would Russia use nukes in Ukraine?
     
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  5. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    A small tactical nuke doesn't make an area uninhabitable. Hiroshima isn't uninhabitable, and wasn't in 1945. Yeah there were bad fission products (neutrons hurt), not nice at all, and the blast it self was deadly of course, but most of the radiation was gone in a few minutes, and much gone in hours. It depends on the "bomb" too. The 1945 bombs weren't sophisticated, and the longer-lived, but less radioactive elements like strontium-90, will cause cancers, but the area then area wasn't uninhabitable. The bombs we and Russia make now are much more sophisticated, and can be tuned to have no "fallout", or make a lot of EMP, or make a "dirty" bomb, etc. Nobody wants a "dirty" bomb, because everyone knows now what long term radiation exposure does. Tactical nukes aren't Chernobyl.

    Now a tactical nuke can be pretty small in yield. The Hiroshima bomb was 15kt, and immediately destroyed 5 square miles of the city (it was detonated in the air) . A tactical nuke can be 0.1 kt (100 tons of TNT), and maybe destroy 1 square mile, maybe less, but not uninhabitable, and can be "launched" by artillery.

    [​IMG]

    A tactical nuke can be bigger, like 100-300kt (20 times the Hiroshima bomb), and could destroy Kyiv for sure, i.e. a "city buster". That would be escalation, and the world would know immediately via satellite detection (even a small nuke). Russia runs exercises that involve nuclear weapons, and their doctrine is “escalate to de-escalate” on Russian territory (made by then-secretary of Russia’s Security Council, Vladimir Putin). I think Ukraine is "Russian territory" in Putin's mind, so it could very easily cause strategic nuclear weapons to launch if US, France, or UK got involved. Let's not get involved directly that way.
     
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  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    even Putin knows the world would nuke them if they did, so it's not a winning move
     
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  7. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I don't get the impression he's trying to win anything. It looks and feels like he's trying to destroy as much as possible even if it means annihilation of his own people.

    Kind of reminds me of "suicide by cop" but his version is "murder/suicide by nuke".
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
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  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Why are they in Ukraine at all?

    You think the West can economically strangle Russia, think what Russia can do to Ukraine. So why didn't they? Why did Russia insist on this invasion? What are they getting out of it?

    I have a rather wild conspiracy theory about this but I'd like to hear others first.
     
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  9. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Nobody's will be more entertaining that yours so you go first, AU.
     
  10. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for explaining this in layman's terms.
     
  11. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even low levels of radiation are dangerous long term and can increase the incidence of cancer.
     
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  12. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    OK, I am not a physicist nor a scientist. Let's assume what I quoted above is 100% accurate. Why were small tactical nukes not used in Afghanistan/Iraq, etc.? And, is your post strictly addressing 'habitability' and only that aspect? My traditional view is 'tactical' nukes are still a last resort action.
     
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  13. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone else find it rather odd that radiation can cause cancer but also cure it?

    But more on the topic, I don't see Russia doing that.
     
  14. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    In cancer radiation therapy, the radiation is targeted to the location of the tumor. However, since it cannot be avoided that it hits other tissues surrounding the tumor, cells in these other, healthy tissues are killed as well. This is why cancer radiation therapy has side effects.

    As to the OP: I find it dangerous that some people seem to think an escalation to a nuclear conflict is acceptable, just to show that we are stronger than Putin. If you think like that, think again. Even if nuclear bombs would hit only 3-4 of our large cities (let's say NY City, DC and LA are probably prime targets), the economic effects will be devastating. If you think the economy is bad right now, with a 25% increase in gas prices and s few empty shelves, you have seen nothing as to what would happen to supply chains and the world economy in a full nuclear conflict.

    So, people should think about the consequences, before they start relativizing the danger of a nuclear war.
     
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  15. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It also makes a very big difference at what altitude the nuclear device is detonated. If it is detonated at an altitude high enough that very little radiation reaches the ground, it tends to disperse in the atmosphere with only a low level increase in radiation over a very wide area. It if it detonated at an altitude low enough that the radioactive particles penetrate into the earth, that area tends to stay radioactive for a much loner time. Tactical nuclear weapons tend to be detonated at very low altitudes.
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think Putin is a lot like Trump, more dangerous for sure, but both have a fragile ego and lash out and say crazy things to get a rise out of people and destract them
     
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  17. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    If they have a hard road block they can’t seem to take control over, or if they get desperate to win. The question however was not if they use nukes. The question was what would we do if they did?
     
  18. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Part of his demands is a regime change (puppets he can control do may as well take it) and he’s also demanding Crimea be officially declared as part of Russia. He is definitely trying to win these demands.
     
  19. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member

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    If anything they will use thermobaric weapons. But if they do go nuke it will be battlefield nukes. Still nukes, but enough to prompt the US into DEFCON 1.
    I seriously do not think he will go there. And if he does, will his generals do it?

    I say give him Crimea and get the hell out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
  20. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    So are you suggesting we shouldn’t have a response if they use nukes? I’m not relativizing anything. I’m saying living under fear that another country may nuke us is not living freely. It’s living by his demands. It’s living by a Russian dictatorship.

    so should we have a response if Russia uses nukes or do we just they don’t get pointed out way? It’s an honest question that no one is answering.
     
  21. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    That would be the first victory of any country to take land for themselves since WWII. You think that’s acceptable? You want the democrats to carry that achievement?

    he’s also demanding two independent states and a regime change in what’s left of Ukraine
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
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  22. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Naaaa I went to bed peacefully right after this post. No crazy here, just wanting to know why my fellow citizens want to live under the threat of nukes. Once Putin knows he can do this he will do it forever. He will likely use that threat to end his sanctions once he has taken out Ukraine and start focusing his attn elsewhere
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
  23. LowKey

    LowKey Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe they are prepared no. There is likely a response protocol drawn up by some strategist, and algorithms sitting around the DoD. The president may have been briefed on them if he is smart. Nobody really expects it to happen because it would be.. how to put this .. whackadoodlydo.. that's a good word for it.

    I mean first of all if you think Russia is cut off now. They'd lose all the fence sitters at the very least probably China, and thats not even to mention that yes it could feasibly be world war 3.

    So best case total isolation. Worst case the ending of Dr Strangelove.

    We'll meet again don't know where don't know when.
     
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  24. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member

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    I get the impression the Crimeans are happy campers. Yes, it is possibly I have the wrong impression.
     
  25. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    There would be some people in Alaska happier if it were it’s own country. The south would have been happier if they split in the 1800’s. None of which is okay.
     

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