Is there proof to show higher survival rate in hospitalized vaxxed covid victims VS non-vaxxed?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Darthcervantes, Jan 10, 2022.

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  1. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did I question that 95% have comorbidities? No. Unlike the rest of your post, that is an actual fact.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where you coming up with 80% from .. but no problem .. 95% endind up dead have 1 or more comorbidity -- 9 out of 10 who die from covid die from pneumonia - folks who are are immune compromised/ pneumonia succeptible .. so we are left with 5 in 1000 who "Might not be compromised" .. factor in fat (not a comorb) and age (not a comorb) .. and you are left with maybe 1 in 1000.

    And once again .. doesn't take a rocket scienctist to understand that folks who have immune issues .. and are not vaxed .. are going to be showing up at a far higher rate than the immune compromized who are vaxed. The vax is a huge benefit to these people .. getting a boost of antibodies is just what they need.
     
  3. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Giftedone, I'm not going to get on google and try to prove or contradict the stats you put out there. I know that people with comorbidities are more likely to die from/with Covid than people with no comorbidities.

    But let's just keep Covid in perspective.

    Flu deaths in America range from 20-50,000 annually. It is probably safe to say that the majority of those deaths are also among people who are elderly or otherwise unhealthy, having comorbidities. But in two years we have had 850,000 deaths from/with Covid in America, an average of 425,000/year. With 6.5 million cases in America, that's a death rate of 1.3% among all groups of people, young and old, healthy and unhealthy.

    So while the risk of death or life threatening illness from/with Covid should not be overstated, it should not be understated either. Clearly, it is more virulent than the flu, and common sense tells us that it has to be treated more seriously.

    I believe the effects of the disease are reduced by being vaccinated. The vaccinations are available to everyone if they want it, so I think it should be up to them, without coercion. That's where I stand on that.

    And a copy/paste from my answer to AKS in case you didn't see it....

    I already know that most people who end up in the hospital, ICU, or who die have other health issues. Some don't, however, like my wife's first cousin who died from Covid a couple months ago. He was completely healthy when he got it. His only risk factor was his age which was 70. He was otherwise hale and hearty, didn't smoke or drink alcohol, and was not overweight. He died after a two month long fight for life. He was not vaccinated.

    Note: I'm 66, and I was fully vaccinated when I got Covid last July. The day after I knew I was sick, I got tested positive for Covid. My symptoms immediately diminished by the day, and 5 days after I tested positive, I was fully recovered. I couldn't even tell I had been sick. During those 6 days, I used a couple doses of Tylenol, and a couple doses of decongestant for colds. That's it. I have had no lingering effects from the disease. I fully believe that being vaccinated helped me beat that disease so quickly. Oh, and I didn't pass it to my wife (age 64) who is also vaccinated.
     
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  4. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    It's Covid that gives rise to pneumonia. No Covid, no pneumonia
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Show me.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And if no sun .. plants will not grow. If no Covid - there would be no Covid .. nor Covid induced Pneumonia .. Brilliant deduction .. but is there a point in all this stating of the benignly obvious ?
     
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  7. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    LOL you wrote them off as "immune compromised/ pneumonia succeptible". Wrong! They died from Covid
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Never said they did not die from Covid. -- You need to better distinguish between what folks say and what you make up in head :)
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On what would you like to be educated mate .. no need to be calling Science "BS"
     
  10. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :blushes: ~ Time for a cup ... :coffeecup::coffeemachine: :blowkiss:
    fposter,small,wall_texture,product,750x1000.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  11. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_p..._archive/covid19-data/covid19_data_latest.pdf

    Florida weekly report.
    Total deaths: 63,158.
    Of those, age 65+: 47,101.

    75% of all dead are older than 65. Many folks at that age have numerous health conditions that they accumulated over their lives.
     
  12. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    How does that explain why a significantly higher percentage of those dying from Covid are unvaccinated if it's not due to being unvaccinated?
     
  13. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ At that age they should be aware and smart enough not to vote for Biden next time around ...
    ? :blushes: :tombstone: <-- Future voter
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  14. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  15. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Good post... I cannot find any of the threads we were commenting on regarding a hospitals responsibility to treat patients with unproved/unapproved COVID treatments, so I'll jump in here...

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-patient-moves-texas-hospital-173457431.html

    THIS is the way it should be handled.... find your loved one a place where you can experiment on them all you want. I have no problems with this (although I cannot see how going TO Texas, of all places, is the best idea right now)

    The article doesn't say exactly why Minn wanted to take this patient off of the ventilator, but I can only assume is was because the ventilator was needed for somebody with a better chance of survival.... IE.... triage...

    Everybody is happy (except the possibly terminal patient)..
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
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  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The case statistics are bogus .. as most cases go unrecorded .. in some places by a factor of 10.

    The conclusion from the Death stats is fallacious .... as while unvaxed make up a higher percentage of deaths .. these are not all unvaxed .. these are unvaxed with comorbidity/ immune compromized. No suprise that a vaxed immune compromised individuals fare better than unvaxed immune compromised individuals.

    Fact 95% of dead have 1 or more comorbidity -- average is 4.
    Of the 5 out of 100 remaining .. 9 out of 10 will be pneumonia succeptible individuals. Factoring in Obesity and Age .. maybe 1 in 1000 people showing up dead are those with healthy biome/immune systems.
     
  17. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    It became apparent that anyone who enters a hospital for any reason is being tested for covid. That means that even if you show up at a hospital with a broken foot, if you have asymptomatic covid you’ll be counted as a covid patient. This correlation might not really represent causation, as the patients lifestyle and risk taking will have a huge influence on whether one will go to a hospital or not. I’ve known one guy who was a big fun of motorcycles and he was in hospitals for broken bones numerous times, and if he happened to have asymptomatic covid then he will be counted as a covid patient on admission. I, on the other hand, do not like bikes and have never broken a bone in my body in my entire life and the likelihood of my asymptomatic covid case being caught is significantly lower. In our current environment hypochondriacs will stay home and expose themselves to less risk for any medical emergency, not just covid, which introduces significant bias in interpretation of covid hospitalization rates.
    I’m not trying to argue one way or another, I’m just saying that we really do miss a lot of important data. A hospitalized covid patient is not necessarily in the hospital for covid, as all hospital patients are tested for it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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  19. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Yes but you are missing the point. That person with a broken foot could just as likely be unvaccinated as vaccinated hence those numbers would cancel out. Yet, a
    significantly higher percentage of those dying from Covid are unvaccinated than vaccinated? I'm not really interested in number of cases, I am interested in hospitalisation and deaths
     
  20. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes of course - that's why they're called "cases" instead of "infections". The actual number of infections isn't known, or knowable, as at no point is the entire population tested. This means there may be a difference between the actual number of cases and known cases. However, this can be said of both populations - the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
  21. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    So the data is guess work.
     
  22. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All you are saying here is that certain individuals have a much lower risk of death. And? This is stating the obvious.

    Conversely, you are saying that those with commodities/compromised immune systems are more likely to die. Again, stating the obvious.

    What's more you completely fail to understand that anything that can be said of the vaccinated population can be said of the unvaccinated population too. That is, the prevalence of comorbidities/compromised immunity applies to the entire population, regardless of vaccination status, making a comparison between death rates for the vaccinated and unvaccinated an apples-to-apples comparison.
     
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  23. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. The number of cases is not guesswork. They are known infections, identified through testing.

    It could be argued that the number of cases (and therefore case rates) among the unvaccinated is artificially high because, being unvaccinated, they are more fearful of being infected and therefore more likely to be tested. On the other hand, it could also be argued that they are less likely to be tested because they are not as concerned about being infected - hence, not vaccinated.

    BUT exactly the same can be said of the vaccinated population. They may be more concerned about infection, which is why they are vaccinated, and therefore more likely to test. Or, less likely to test because the vaccine makes them less fearful of infection.

    Furthermore, anything that might impact testing rates would need to be significant enough to create a five-fold difference in case rates.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
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  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have not failed to recognize vaxed- unvaxed similarities.. where I have I done this ? talking nonsense.

    Where you "completely fail" - is understanding the obvious .. that Group A individuals - should not be blamed for the "Obvious" fact - that it is Group B showing up at hospital-ICU-Dead.

    Yet you - in your totalitarian zest for power and control .. wish to demonize group A .. for issues related to Group B .. and force medical treatment on Group A on the basis of a lie - false logic .. inability to see the obvious .
     
  25. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    This! Thank you foe posting this.

    It is important to keep the perspective here. The 500,000 covid deaths in the first year of the pandemic also occurred while the country was shut down for a month and when many people were social distancing and masking. These measures worked so well that they brought the number of flu deaths to below 1,000, a more than 10-fold reduction from a normal flu season. It can only be speculated what the covid death count would have been without those counter-measures and without vaccinations, but it is safe to say that it would have been easily +1 million, if not +2 million. I have no idea how people can shrug off these staggering numbers, but somehow they can mentally compartmentalize them into the "no big deal" category, if it fits their political preconceptions. Imagine if we had 850,000 deaths from an enemy military attack. We'd be now in WWIII. Covid deaths, not so much as a shrug of shoulders and claiming "they were old anyway".
     
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