Is this analysis of the F-35 accurate?

Should we Canadians and Australians demand that our F-35's be shipped to Israel…….. and debugged and modified by the I.A.F. before we make further payments on them?

( Biblicist2, post #13…. page 2)
http://www.christianforums.com/t7848489-2/

 

I created a poll to go along with this topic:

http://www.politicalforum.com/opinion-polls/380305-what-your-opinion-f-35-a.html
View Poll Results: Could I. A. F. engineers fix the F-35?

No…. American engineers are the best in the world.

Yes…. Israeli engineers are more motivated.

The F-35 is far ahead of the T-50 and fewer bugs.

I really don't know for sure but I definitely am interested in this subject.

 

The US has thousands of fighter aircraft. No South American country would be able to support a large enough airforce to overwhelm it.

 

http://www.pogo.org/blog/2014/02/heres-what-60-minutes-didnt-tell-you-about-the-f-35.html

[video=youtube_share;KTF_a1DuIyE]http://youtu.be/KTF_a1DuIyE[/video]

 

We have no business sending any weapons systems to Israel or anywhere else for that matter. I would add the same goes for our tax dollars, cut them all off, they are not our children and we cannot afford them.

 

Our idiot PM just squandered $12 billion on these junk antiquated jets, that now have to be repaired & debugged.

To answer your question: YES. But, we don't have politicians with the balls to do it, they all hide under US skirts like frightened little girls.

 

You are probably correct but……… the American work ethic/ pay plus perks set of expectations…… could put American aircraft out of the price range of her allies if she is not careful.

The article is obviously somewhat biased….. and for all I know could be an infomercial disguised as an article…. but…. there is no denying that this is a well written article?!

http://in.rbth.com/blogs/2013/04/08/why_australia_should_scratch_the_f-35_and_fly_sukhois_23629.html

 

Due to the tight airspace that they are working in I. A. F. engineers must modify and debug every jet that they purchase.

Because Israel plans to purchase 100 F-35's…. they will have to get the bugs out of them.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/israel-plans-to-buy-over-100-f35s-02381/
(click to view full)

 

Fortunately for the US, the Australian politicians would buy American military hardware regardless of any extraordinary cost to the tax payers, or the quality of the merchandise. Considering how our idiotic PM and deputy PM internationally accused Vladimir Putin of shooting down flight MH17 without any facts or evidence, as being puppets to their US masters. Any military contracts or deal between Australia and Russia is never going to happen.

 

You mean Rudd, he was the one who committed to the F35.

 

Ummm do you know what your talking about though, in all seriousness.... I mean 'tight airspace' WTF. Airports are tight airspace too, often less then 10km radius. Israel is much bigger then that, and they've been flying military operations in fast jets for decades that didn't need modification to operate in 'tight airspace'.

Airspace exists in all sorts of dimensions, and is stacked and layered according to operational requirements no matter how large or small a political boundary might be. Its not uncommon to have tiny blocks of airspace less then a couple of miles across at military gunnery ranges worldwide and have that surrounded by larger and larger airspace.

Countries often modify aircraft to use indigenous systems or different weapon systems, its no big deal.

The comparison to Russian jets is complex, but generally speaking the F35 is an improvement on existing platforms and the Russian products are different types of jet with different capabilities and different vulnerabilities.

 

Undisputed. The recourse to the citizens for electing an unqualified and inexperienced idiot to manage their $trillion economy. But I also believe there was a clause in the contract whereby Abbott didn't have to continue with the $12 billion purchase, but he elected to continue, even after he was advised the jets were inferior and outdated against other models. Its called: having your head too far up American arse to even see reality!!

 

I'm not sure of the contractual obligation for the last tranche, but its irrelevant because the original decision is to replace an air force 'capability', and that cannot be stopped half way as the capability will not exist if not replaced. So the continuation of the purchase is required in operational terms once the original decision by Rudd was made....
...and its not inferior or outdated to anything actually, though some platforms do exceed particular performance areas it is not an accurate representation of overall aircraft capability (usually).

 

Your argument would be logical if Australia was at war and needed to immediately upgrade its current fighters, but considering Australia is engaged in "NO" war of offense or defense to protect its borders, then your argument as to why Australian tax payers need to spend $12 billion on sub-standard jets that need additional equipment and upgrading on their base model - is flawed. Abbott could have cancelled the contract to purchase the F35's and brought other jets of better quality for less money, but he elected to squander tax payers money of sub-standard US military merchandise, and this is not the first time Australian politicians have wasted tax payers money buying sub-standard American military junk. Surely there are similar, if not superior jets from other manufactures besides buying the some old rubbish that always has to be upgraded form the USA.

I bet if Canada was in the same situation as Australia in not having to complete the contact to buy those antiquated F35's, they would not have proceeded to buy them - considering the massive trouble and cost they have realised its now going to cost them to keep an old fleet of out-dated fighters in the air.

Hells bells, for maintenance, you have fly your F35's to the US for service, or pay for US technicians to come here to service them - nice going dumbarse Abbott.

 

You mean dumbass Rudd. If they'd cancelled the acquisition half way then we'd have a mixed fleet which costs at least twice as much to maintain as two systems have to run to cover two different aircraft. It's much cheaper to run one type, and Rudd decided on the F35. There really is no room for rational abuse on Abbott over this issue.

If you think 3 operational squadron's and a conversion squadron is a war footing then you'd be wrong. Remembering its a multirole aircraft its employment has to cover quite a few tasks so any effective air operation needs complex tasking with supporting roles etc. It just sounds like your angry and spouting off nonesense.... and the jets are not sub-standard. What additional equipment and upgrading are you referring too? All jets tend to get additional equipment and upgrades over time, but these will new full spec aircraft upon arrival which will exceed anything in the region in all areas which are relevant to air combat. Unless you just want display jets for airshows, then yea their is high performance stuff on the market for cheaper... but they will not last as long in a war so you'll need a lot more of them and a lot more pilots to fly and die in them. The Russian and Chinese approach is low tech, hi attrition... but in Australia we value peoples lives more then to use them as cannon fodder - but yea the disparity gives plenty of fodder for people to imagine stuff and complain about stuff.

 

I personally do completely understand why our political leaders want to buy U.S.A. made fighter jets if at all possible.

407,000 American citizens gave their lives during WWII.

How many more Australians and Canadians would have died if America had not joined in to combat Germany, Japan and Italy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

 

That is an exceptionally good point axialturban!

I gave you extra reputation for that one.... yes........ the cost of maintenance on a mixed fleet would certainly be much higher!!!!!

 

I pesonally...… am a Canadian who is quote pro-USA. I betcha you didn't know that they even decided to just let my great, great, great.... grandparents from Dixie who were United Empire Lolalists to just travel up north without even persecuting them!


http://www.christianforums.com/t7653888/


An apology to all Americans from a Canadian, and a thank you!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of my ancestors were Masons from Dixie who came to Country Harbour, Nova Scotia at the time of the American Revolution. I deeply appreciate the fact that so many Americans were closer to God than we Canadians tend to be and somehow your leaders were guided to not persecute us!

I also wish to apologize for the fact that the leadership of my nation was less guided by the Holy Spirit and we did not understand how the independence of America was comparable to the division of the Northern Kingdom of Israel from the Southern Kingdom of Judah at the time of King Rehoboam the son of Solomon.

I also wish to apologize for our elitism because it has been playing a significant role in your economic crash of 2008. If a higher percentage of Americans understood the full implications of truly wise monetary policy the world would begin to look quite different indeed!

Chapter 49 — The History of Banking Control in the United States
http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty49.htm

Alain Pilote:

 

No...… I am quite ignorant of how many seconds it takes an F-16...… at full speed .... to get from one side of Israeli air space....... to the other end of Israeli air space........ during a time of peace?

I am truly glad to hear your positive comments about the F-35 as it stacks up against the Russian competition.

 

Thank you immensely for the link into this interesting film Hoosier8.

I feel a bit depressed after watching it...… but it sure was informative!

 

Like anything. You start out with a design and let the contract, then the stakeholders keep coming back with new requirements and you end up going over budget and miss deadlines and end up with abortion that is hard to manage. Especially with aircraft, when you change one thing, you often have to redesign much of everything else to handle the change.

 

"Israel's area is approximately 27,000 km2 (10,425 sq mi), which includes 445 km2 (172 sq mi) of inland water.[1][3] Israel stretches 424 km (263 mi) from north to south, and its width ranges from 114 km (71 mi) to, at its narrowest point, 15 km (9.3 mi)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Israel

"Highly nimble, the F-16 was the first fighter aircraft purpose-built to pull 9-g maneuvers and can reach a maximum speed of over Mach 2."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

If an F-16 gets up to 1500 miles per hour.... it won't take very long to go out of Israeli air space will it?

 

Are you suggesting the IAF reduces or limits the speed of its fighter jets because Israel is a small territory? That is a bizarre suggestion and AFAIK incorrect.

The jets need to be able to operate in the wider region, and high performance is integral to survivability.

 

I admit that I could be wrong about this but......… I have the strong suspicion that since 1975 I. A. F. engineers probably came up with innovations that assisted the F-16 to be able to make a 9g turn so well????!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

I suspect that the I. A. F. probably did a significant percentage of their training in the U.S. A. and I suspect that they probably shared the types of innovations that they had to do to make the F-16 more useful in Israeli air space.

I could be wrong....... perhaps I am getting a little too into "Covert Affairs" and perhaps I am taking the relationship between Annie Walker/ Piper Perabo with Odad Fehr/ Eyal Levin.... a little too seriously......… but... let's face it....... Israelis may be more motivated to keep America strong.... than many Americans are!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_Affairs

Where Locheed Martin executives and engineers may well fall into the trap of being overly concerned with quarterly profit margin..... I. A. F. engineers......… have to make sure that they don't waste money on 100 F-35's ...… The I. A. F. commitment to the F-35..... in my opinion....... is extremely important! If I. A. F. engineers were completely in agreement with the assertions made in the article that I gave a link to in the opening post...… they would not commit themselves to purchase so many of them.

By the way that was an exceptionally good question... I attempted to give you reputation for it... but I can't add to your rep any more until I spread it around more?!

 

Hoosier8…..by page 2 in this thread we are getting into some ideas that are indirectly related to the future of the F-35…. I am curious what you think of the idea of killer robots?

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...inatior-3-self-aware-warriors-devolpment.html
terminatior 3 self aware warriors are in devolpment