Is this analysis of the probable long term effects of climate change logical?

The truth is the ultimate debunker.

 

Sure is... Unfortunately you are either incapable of finding it or simply lying.

 

Do you mean like this? ...

 

The original Kyoto agreement ended in 2012.

And now how about addressing this:

And perhaps an estimate of the reduction in global average temperature if all the signatories of the Kyoto extension meet their CO2 emission goals ??

 

... and? Did you have a point you are trying to make here? Because it does not change the fact that your assertion was wrong.

Umm .. ok, sure. It's interesting that you find that to be interesting?!?

 

It's of interest because it shows that the entire AGW narrative is bogus.

And it's also interesting that when asked for the benefit of CO2 emission reduction from the extended Kyoto targets (if met) all that is discernible is the sound of crickets. This is true of any energy policy directed toward the reduction of CO2 emissions. How is it possible to support a program without an understanding of the costs and benefits.

 

It does?

I'll let Hadfield take care of that;

[video=youtube;CY4Yecsx_-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4Yecsx_-s[/video]

 

Funny stuff - a propaganda video is offered as proof when there are ~ 2000 papers indicating that the Roman Warm Period, Dark Ages Cool Period, Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age, and first half of the current warm period took place at constant CO2 concenetration and were global. Also the MWP and Roman Warm Period were warmer than the current warm period. All this information is out there for the curious with initiative to discover.

 

Propaganda video?
Why don't you try watching it instead. Hadfield does a great job explaining all the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) you are promoting.
Of course you could also not believe him and go through all the sources if you prefer;


SOURCES

0:45 Christopher Monckton interview with Michael Coren

01:23 -- co2science.org/data/mwp/regions/northamerica.php
and
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/ima...


02:18 Ibid

02:42 "Global-scale temperature patterns and climate forcing over the past six centuries" -- ----- Mann Bradley and Hughes, Nature 1998

02:50 "Northern Hemisphere Temperatures During the Past
Millennium: Inferences, Uncertainties, and Limitations" Mann Bradley and Hughes, American Geophysical Union. 1999

03:03 "Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance" -- McIntyre and McKitrick, Geophysical Research Letters 2005

03:18 "Surface Temperature Reconstructions for the Last 2,000 years" National Academy of Sciences

03:41 "Ad Hoc Committee Report on the 'Hockey Stick' Global [sic] Climate Reconstruction" -- Edward Wegman, published in Computational Statistics and Data Analysis 2008

"Climate study gets pulled after charges of plagiarism" http://www.usatoday.com/weather/clima...

04:21 "Proxy-based reconstructions of hemispheric and global surface temperature variations
over the past two millennia" Mann et al, PNAS 2008

05:10 "Orbital Forcing of Tree Ring Data" Esper et al, Nature Climate Change 2012

05:20 Daily Mail story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec...

06:23 "A NEW RECONSTRUCTION OF TEMPERATURE VARIABILITY IN THE EXTRA-TROPICAL NORTHERN HEMISPHERE DURING THE LAST TWO MILLENNIA" Lungqvist, Swedish Society for Anthropology and Geography 2010

07:00 "Catastrophe Denied" by Warren Myer

07:37 "Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from
low- and high-resolution proxy data" -- Moberg, Nature 2005

08:21 "A 2000-YEAR GLOBAL TEMPERATURE RECONSTRUCTION
BASED ON NON-TREERING PROXIES" -- Loehle 2007

08:28 Joannenova.com

08:40 "Correction to: A 2000-YEAR GLOBAL TEMPERATURE
RECONSTRUCTION BASED ON NON-TREE RING PROXIES" Loehle 2008

08:50 Ibid

09:01 http://www.skepticalscience.com/new-r...

09:15 "The Great Global Warming Swindle" -- by Martin Durkin Channel 4

09:26 "Global Warming Sunspots Explained" by David Archibald

09:31 "Catastrophe Denied" by Warren Myer

09:35 "The Truth About Global Warming" by David Icke

09:48 IPCC report, Chapter 7, 1990
10:10 McIntyre

10:19 "High-resolution palaeoclimatology of the last millennium: a review of current
status and future prospects" Jones et al, The Holocene, 2009

11:40 Global Warming (or is it Global Cooling)' http://rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress....

14:59 Joannenova.com

17:24 "Unstoppable Solar Cycles"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl4Pz1...


19:10 "Extra-tropical Northern Hemisphere land temperature variability over the past 1000 years" Cook et al., Quaternary Science Reviews 2004

19:24 "Long-Term Aridity Changes in the Western United States" -- Cook et al, Science 2004
See also: "Drought Reconstructions for the Continental United States" -- Cook et al, Journal of Climate 2004

19:27 "The 'Mediaeval Warm Period' drought recorded in Lake Huguangyan, tropical
South China" -- Chu et al, The Holocene 2002

19:29 "Amazonia suffered immense drought between 700-800 AD and 1000-1100 AD" (Fire, Climate Change and Biodiversity in Amazonia: a Late Holocene Perspective. M. Bush. Phil. Trans. Royal Society. 2008. Archaeological Evidence for the Impact of Mega-Nino Events on Amazonia during the past two Millennia. B. Meggers. Smithsonian. 1994.)

19:33 http://www.newscientist.com/movie/usmap

19:45 "Drought Under Global Warming: a review" -- Aiguo Dai, Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change 2011
https://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/news/...

 

New science comes out all of the time. Tree rings have some notorious issues so it's really often opinion on what it should be saying. Here is the study of ocean thermal mass that shows that it was warmer during the medieval warm period.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6158/617

 

I have watched it - months ago. Do you ever actually investigate what the scientific record says about the MWP ?? There are thousands of papers establishing the MWP and Little Ice Age and the fact that the MWP was global and warmer than the current warming period so far. And all of this took place at constant CO2 concentration. The entire attempt at discrediting these facts about the MWP is based on the Mann hockey stick and the position adopted by the IPCC that the hockey stick was correct and all the other papers were wrong. McKittrick and McIntyre showed that the hockey stick was completely bogus. The position taken by the IPCC politicians in the Third Assessment Report (2001) that a single tree ring study shows the truth about the global temperature history in the last 1000 years has been shown to be completely invalid and is an embarrassment to the IPCC.

 

There are many summaries of the last 10,000 years of the Holocene showing that the temperature was warmer than it is today available with references to the scientific papers supporting that conclusion. It is only in the last ~ 2000 years (although there was a ~ 200 year cold period ~ 8200 years ago) that periods of relative cooling occurred. All of this of course was at a CO2 concentration less than today.

 

Are you trying to have an argument with an imaginary gnome in your closet or something? This constant "deny, ignore and pivot" strategy is tiresome. That is a hallmark of a weak argument.

You said something which was wrong. Admit it and get over it. Your tangents will go unaddressed until you do.

 

What a great post! That's how you provide sources.

It is always good when the opposition can only look at the list and say -- "oh yeah? Well I got stuff on my side too. There's this guy with a blog .. and, and ... umm .. other stuff too!"

... or the even worse response of, "The answers are out there if you just do your homework".

 

It was correct with regard to the original Kyoto agreement.

And now please address the more important question or should we chalk this up again in the column of the inability of alarmists to acknowledge the history of the Roman warm period, dark ages cool period, Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age, and the first ~70 years of the current warming period which all took place at constant CO2 concentration. No answer yet from GM and BA and it appears that this question will accompany the inability to define what the climate sensitivity of CO2 is and the break even cost/benefit temperature point of global warming. The preceding is not a tangent but is the basis of the AGW argument or lack thereof.

- - - Updated - - -

That's right - do your homework and address the Roman warm period, dark ages cool period, Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age, and the first ~70 years of the current warming period which all took place at constant CO2 concentration question.

There are thousands of papers and discussion available to read with a little effort which show the global extent of these periods in the last 2000 years. Claiming that a 20 minute YouTube video with time stamps and the hockey stick refutes all of this work is ludicrous. The work is out there for those inclined to investigate. I don't expect that to be done by the alarmists as their minds are closed. And I have no interest in proving anything to them. It is up to them to open their minds to the reality of the historical record and the scientific data which has been used to reconstruct that record. If there is no interest in self education I could care less.

Again a 20 minute YouTube video ?? That's embarrassing.

 

It was wrong - full stop

Q: What does any of this have to do with you being wrong about your assertion that "The US is the only country to actually meet the Kyoto targets even though we did not sign it"? A: Nothing

You are correct there. For it to be a tangent it must intersect at one point. It does not even do that.

For you it certainly is ... It has infinitely more citations than you have provided and successfully refutes your every point. Kudos again to him for that. But hey, don't be sad ... your ranting and crying is pretty convincing to people as well ... probably ... well, maybe.

 

Sadly your curiosity and initiative seem satisfied by a 20 minute YouTube video. There is nothing anyone can do about that. It's a wretched statement for academia as well.

 

Michael Coren certainly does do some good interviews.

I personally am not a huge fan of a carbon tax or cap and trade system but......

we really can't go too far wrong with large scale desalination of ocean water for
agriculture, reforestation as well as for towns and cities.


http://saharaforestproject.com/qatar/

 

Where is the cost/benefit analysis ??

 

Hoosier8.... that is exactly what I have been hoping could occur!

If.... we will respond to climate change in a manner that is logical......
and obviously beneficial.... such as an Alternative Wall between the USA and Mexico that is
partly a massive solar energy ocean water desalination facility..... that results in at least some
desert areas being turned green..... and food produced......

A massive fish pond would also be beneficial.....

then yes.... an increase in climate warming could be quite for millions of people.


http://www.politicalforum.com/opinion-polls/483090-what-do-you-think-my-alternative-wall-theory.html

What do you think of my Alternative Wall Theory?
An alternative wall..... to The Donald's Mexico - USA wall would include......
a massive ocean water desalination facility plus.......

a huge fish farm.... that extends along much of the alternative wall.........

 

Where is the cost/benefit analysis ?? And will Mexico pay for it ??

 

At this time volunteerism in some form makes up well over twenty percent of the North American economy.

In theory, organizing volunteerism more effectively and increasing it through better incentives
or even programming volunteerism into a database
could set in motion a series of events that could result in such a massive increase in the USA and
world economy that this one factor could pay off the USA national debt within a decade or so.

I personally would be more than willing to explain how this could work to your
retiring President and his assistants any time that he is interested.

My wife is from Ecuador, her first language is Spanish so yes..... this can certainly be done from Mexico.

Allowing severe climate change to pressure certain nations toward warfare as a response perhaps to terrorism
could set in motion WWIII.... which could destroy the earth.

There are no jobs on a dead earth...... and the DOW Jones on a dead earth........
will drop to zero!

http://www.politicalforum.com/elect...ident-obama-remember-antigonish-movement.html
President Obama, remember the Antigonish Movement?

 

If you want to help third world countries develop the developed countries should build fossil fuel power generation plants in those countries giving the gift of inexpensive electrical power available 24/7/365. You can have all the desalinated water in the world but it's useless without power to move it.

 

Hopefully...... .one of these years a major electrical company
or solar battery company in Kenya will accept:



http://www.yesmagazine.org/commonom...ncies-bigger-than-bitcoin-bangla-pesa-brixton

Alternative Currencies Are Bigger Than Bitcoin: How They’re Building Prosperity From London to Kenya

....

 

Aha yes.. .I have got to give you the statistics on exactly how much
H2O is being added to the central part of Antarctica.......

http://www.habtheory.com/1/100.php

I posted the primary quotation from the opening post again over here:

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=496117&p=1067112108#post1067112108
Nova Scotia Needs Innovative Education Reform