Is this the answer to atmospheric carbon?

Discussion in 'Science' started by DennisTate, Oct 15, 2018.

?

Is recycling carbon out of the atmosphere the answer?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  2. No.... only a carbon tax will do!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. No

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  4. I am not sure.... but I think I may watch that video again?!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The root problem is population increase...there needs to be a public dialogue about population growth and it's effects. Doubt there are any reasonable solutions to population growth so understanding how Earth will be effected is tantamount to understanding where all of this leads? Here we are talking about atmospheric carbon but look at what we are also doing to our streams and lakes and oceans and the amount of waste created each day. It's kind of a moot point focusing so much on climate change when in parallel we're damaging the ground and water that all of us live and work on. Climate change is going to exacerbate our potable water supplies and reduce arable land. So if you graph population growth with water and air pollution trends, amount of arable land, how much waste is created, etc...I'm assuming it's not going to be a pretty picture...
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah just like needing to lose 50 lbs. and thinking it can be accomplished in a few weeks...problem is while it takes lots of time to lose the weight the person remains susceptible to the health effects of being overweight. While there is so much mankind and technology can do the question is will we do it effectively, and while we're all arguing, mankind remains susceptible to the ill-effects of climate change...
     
  3. BarleyPopGuy

    BarleyPopGuy Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,040
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How do you alarmists sleep at night?
     
    OhZone and DennisTate like this.
  4. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Unfortunately we humans cannot even agree there is an issue let alone what to do about it. It is past the time to do anything of consequence anyway so acceptance and preparation are the alternatives, those are up to the individual so those in denial should just sit back and have a beer.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  5. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Quite well in winter....a bit hot in summer for my tastes.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  6. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I doubt that long carbon chain molecules can be built in the process. The product of the process is most likely an alcohol.

    But that could be very useful -- as perhaps an ingredient for an easier way to make ethanol, or for fuel systems designed to burn alcohol (but you can't see it when your car is on fire).

    I would like to see CO2 reduced significantly in the atmosphere and see if that would actually make any difference -- in an actual application to the theory.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Earth has never been subjected to the lingering effects of humans. We can even eliminate humans from our history and contemplate what would have happened if dinosaurs could have flourished on Earth? As they over-populate, would they consume/destroy all of their food and water? Would their waste pollute and cause health effects? As climate changes due to dinosaurs changing Earth does this become lethal to dinosaurs? A question might be how many dinosaurs can Earth support? How many humans can Earth support? I suspect we are near or have surpassed the number of humans who can be reasonably supported by Earth...
     
    tecoyah and DennisTate like this.
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,491
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I got the impression from another one of my polls that a significant percentage of writers here on the forum tend to agree with me on:

    A carbon tax will NOT work fast enough to address WAIS collapse.


    And the results of this poll were quite encouraging indeed:

    Could alternative method of combatting climate change unite right and left???



    Do you believe turning deserts green is part of a full response to climate change?
    1. *
      Yes, plants are both a carbon and water sink!
      5 vote(s)
      38.5%

    2. No, geo-engineering in any form is evil!
      4 vote(s)
      30.8%

    3. No, all effort must be put into a carbon tax or cap and trade system.
      2 vote(s)
      15.4%
    4. *
      Yes, even religious people like the idea of producing food in deserts.
      4 vote(s)
      30.8%
    Multiple votes are allowed.

     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,491
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Which I suppose is why some bureaucrats have been calling for a significant depopulation.........

    and nature and human nature seems to be in line with this possibility.

    Personally.... I do think that there are many options......

    Are we facing 70 - 90 percent depopulation of world?

    Personally.... i think that an outpouring of the Ruach ha Kodesh / the Holy Spirit... can make a significant depopulation entirely unnecessary.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,478
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think this is a serious issue, too.

    On the good side, the world population growth rate is decreasing. World population growth rate is less than half what it was in 1970.

    Still, there certainly are valid concerns about water, arable land, etc.

    Starving people and lack of water are major causes of instability, including failed states. We have countries like Bangladesh, Iraq, and others who depend on water coming from other countries. As that water gets polluted or is cut off before reaching those countries, it becomes a national security issue.

    http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think humans are this smart and certainly not very proactive. I believe the reality is that local or world-wide civilizations come and go based on over-population and depletion of essential resources. Can there be a limiting factor like a bacteria wiping out 75% of the humans...sure...but this will be an anomaly. Remember just to have the human species survive humans must reproduce at a certain rate...this is survival of the species and I think this guarantees steady population growth. I think it's as simple as too much population and too little resources and this spells the end...
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In a small sample size I can assume we could control population growth, but in a sample size of 7 billion (world population) I just don't think it's feasible. Things like ignorance, religion, entitlement, desire for power, etc. get in the way of managing population growth at the world level...
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,478
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nobody is controlling the reduction in growth rate that we have seen for years now.

    In fact, China's growth rate is lower than our own, even though they ended their one child policy.
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,873
    Likes Received:
    73,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Who pays?
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,478
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They still have to dump in the energy to harvest the co2.

    Then, they have to dump in energy to separate the carbon from the oxygen. And, that's MORE than the energy released when the fossil fuel was burned to create the CO2 in the first place.

    Then, they can start dumping in more energy to formulate something useful, as you point out.

    Obviously, that's WAY way more energy than would be available from whatever fule they fabricate.

    There is far too much ineficiency in their idea.

    They claim they will use wind/solar energy for that - but it would be more efficieent to simply use wind/solar energy directly, rathere than all the horribly inefficient playing with carbon.
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,491
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    For one thing whatever type of fuel the reclaimed atmospheric carbon is put into is sold.........
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which might eventually mean a small profit for the product....the question would be who pays for the infrastructure and supply chain that allows for the product?
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,478
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it's worse than that. Going from CO2 to C + O requires all the energy that going the other way can release, in fact more, due to imperfect efficiency. Plus, the other steps all require energy, too.

    Our carbon situation would be better if they just used theiir clean energy source to do work that would otherwise be done by burning fossil fuel. The cost of gathering CO2 and fabricating a substitute fuel that then puts the CO2 back into the atmosphere doesn't have any advantage I can see.

    If they had so much clean energy that they don't have anything else to do with it, then maybe this is a way to essentially export the energy. But, I don't believe that, either.
     
    tecoyah likes this.
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's not about controlling population today..it's about 'can we' control population in the future? What mechanism can be used to force population control?

    For example, many across the world have higher reproduction rates simply because of religion. In order to change them, their religion's dogma not only must change but the people will need to be convinced to do something different than in the past few centuries...good luck...
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,478
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Still, population growth rate is decreasing pretty much everywhere.

    I don't know of any country where population growth rate isn't decreasing.

    Let me know if you find one.
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    World population growing at about 1.14% per year.
    83 million more people each year.
    Someone is having fun...
     
  22. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Is this the answer to atmospheric carbon?


    Photosynthesis.
    Those plankton in the South Pacific keep messing up
    global warming with their sequestration of carbon.


    Float an island to slowly dispense nitrate in the middle of the ocean
    and in less then a month there will be a fishery
    right there!
    It has been done. Saw it on Discovery Channel years ago.
    Learned it in advanced High School Biology in the early-mid sixties.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,491
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Does the idea of methane being released from the Arctic permafrost alarm you WillReadmore?

    AboveAlpha does have me worried about that factor.
     
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO it's not about one thing...everything that can be charted is headed in the wrong direction...I'm sure each thing on it's own exacerbates other things making all things worse. Processes on Earth do not operate independently...more like a gigantic chain of events...like dominoes. What's interesting to me is that no matter the large scale of Earth, we see that very small changes are all that is needed to have full-scale effects...many of which will be untenable and a challenge to mankind. I think we are now in a free-fall, unlikely to have any mitigation, so good luck Earth...
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  25. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,857
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that's so depressing...but yeah, I agree
     
    OldManOnFire likes this.

Share This Page