Is this the answer to atmospheric carbon?

Discussion in 'Science' started by DennisTate, Oct 15, 2018.

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Is recycling carbon out of the atmosphere the answer?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  2. No.... only a carbon tax will do!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. No

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  4. I am not sure.... but I think I may watch that video again?!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. As I understand it, this is one of the major feedback loops leading to faster warming.

    We warm the earth with CO2 and that thaws more tundra that then emits methane - a greenhouse gas that is far worse than CO2.
     
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  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    AMEN.

    The tundra issue is special only in that it is huge as an individual issue. And, it shows how a little warming can cause significant new sources of warming.
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the only people who could seriously argue against your very logical ideas here is former Atheist and near death experiencer Mellen Thomas Benedict.

    https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a09
     
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you think that I have valid reason to suspect that the release of methane from the permafrost could be playing a significant role in the one, two or three degree rise in the Arctic?


    [​IMG]
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read anything that ties permafrost melting to the warming anomalies in the Arctic.

    There could be several other reasons as far as I know.
     
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  6. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Albedo likely plays a significant role....with tundra melt as well.
     
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  7. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    add to that now more erratic Jet Stream that's now bringing warmer weather further north ...like dominoes, one falls and it triggers a string of others to fall
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  8. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thus the term "Positive Feedback Loop".

    Also called Climate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I misstated my reply. I think I was asked if methane from decaying tundra was causing the arctic to warm more rapidly than other areas. I think the question was motivated by reports of abnormal warming in the arctic.

    I'm not sure whether the addition of that methan is staying to effect the arctic or is dispersed to have a broader effect or is just not yet enough to be the responsible cause, etc. There could be other reasons for anomalies specific to the arctic.

    I agree with you that albedo change might be the real difference. Even just melting arctiic sea ice (as seen in open seaways in the extreme north) would change albedo.
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't know...having 10,000/15,000 nuclear weapons in the hands of various nations, and more being built, many of which are nations teetering on the brink of good and evil, is a pretty serious problem to me. And, people saw the waste laid from the detonation of two bombs in Japan, as well as pictures from nuclear research, while to see the potential effects of climate change cannot easily be seen and therefore are grossly misunderstood...
     
  11. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    my 18yr old son said to me the other day "for the sake of the planet we should have a major nuclear war and start over."...depressing thoughts from an 18yr old, correctly recognizing that too many people is the problem.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If CO2 is viable fuel source, then we're Fing doomed. We'll use it all and the plants will suffocate.
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Earth will take care of itself but humans and other living things will pay the ultimate price...Earth the rock will be around a long time after humans are finished with it...but if we turn Earth into Mars or nuclear waste we might never get a do-over...great that your son is thinking about this!

    We don't yet know if we will populate ourselves into oblivion or if Earth will do it for us...
     
  14. FivepointFive

    FivepointFive Banned

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    I haven't watched the video yet so I can't vote but I think if we start using hemp instead of nylon we will at least lock some carbon up in too much of the material we use

    Steel and aluminum or just too expensive now to be used as Structural Materials and besides it takes a lot of carbon to make steel emissions carbon emission
     
  15. FivepointFive

    FivepointFive Banned

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    I stopped watching when it said why don't we recycle energy I said to myself there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine

    I know enough about physics and chemistry and the energy states of different forms of matter to know what it takes
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Am I wrong to find this video profoundly encouraging???

    https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157054362515786&id=636665785&hc_location=ufi
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I didn't watch the whole thing. Maybe I didn't get to the encouraging part.

    It's certainly the case that if we were to sequester carbon by burying it, it would at least be a step in the opposite direction of mining ancient carbon as gas and oil. However, I don't see any way to do that economically on a scale anywhere close to the magnitude of our gas and oil companies working in the opposite direction - or even just in the growth of the fossil fuel industry.

    Our soils are in better shape for plants when there is more carbon in the soil. Unfortunately, it gets depleted when we do things like plow - which exposes carbon to oxygen, creating CO2. Plants get their carbon from the air, not the ground and it's a cycle as carbon ends up being oxidized by rot or consumption by animals. A new forest would be good. Destroying a forest would potentially release huge amounts of carbon.

    Working on clean energy can slow the growth in our carbon emissions while being economical. So, I think there is something to that direction.

    If you saw some other encouraging part, please let me know.
     
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  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes.. the crucial part is the last fifteen seconds of the video... you can skip right to it if you prefer.


    I know that I have to watch that video again because there is a lot in it.....

    The part that I found encouraging fits with:


    TONY LOVELL ON SOIL CARBON: PUTTING CARBON BACK WHERE IT BELONGS – IN THE EARTH (TEDX VIDEO)

    First Nations Shaman have predictions about the Buffalo / Beefalo coming back to the Great Plans....... cattle and Buffalo can put the carbon back into the soil. AOC..... IS TERRIBLY MISTAKEN REGARDING BOVINE FLATULENCE!
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The last 15 seconds notes that soil is a major carbon sink. But, that doesn't show how massive amounts of carbon could be added to the soil any more than noting that the ocean is the #1 carbon sink identifies how to put more carbon in the ocean.

    (I'd also argue that the #1 carbon sink BY FAR is the massive fossil fuel deposits - that we dig up and then put into the atmosphere, causing the problem in the first place.)

    I'm really glad to see AOC being concerned about this problem. The idea that a non scientist from the streets of NYC isn't an expert on cows doesn't bother me nearly as much as the numerous congressmen and the executive branch who deny what science does say. THOSE are the problem children. And, all too many of them know better, but still refuse to act.
     
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  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tony Lovell presents a powerful and logical case that many, many, many, many MORE cows and / or Beefalo / Buffalo than are on the Great Plans now........
    could arrange to put that extra one or two percent more carbon into the soil.....
    in a way that will be win - win - win - win - win for everybody!

    https://permaculturenews.org/2012/1...ack-where-it-belongs-in-the-earth-tedx-video/

    TONY LOVELL ON SOIL CARBON: PUTTING CARBON BACK WHERE IT BELONGS – IN THE EARTH (TEDX VIDEO)
    NOVEMBER 10, 2012 BY CRAIG MACKINTOSH - PRI EDITOR & FILED UNDER BIODIVERSITY, DEFORESTATION, GLOBAL WARMING/CLIMATE CHANGE, PLANT SYSTEMS, POPULATION, SOIL BIOLOGY, SOIL COMPOSITION, SOIL EROSION & CONTAMINATION, SOIL REHABILITATION, STRUCTURE, TREES


     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Cool presentation. We'll have to see where it goes, I think.

    I draw the line at beefalo - WAY too weird! The ones I've seen have a cow head on a buffalo body - yikes!
     
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  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We do need to do something......

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only stopping massive deforestation will stop further warming. Anything else is a waste of time and money.
     
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  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  25. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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