Is this the Trump Doctrine?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    One could make the opposing argument too, that Israel repeatedly inflames the region, engages in extra-judicial killing as a matter of policy, acts like a generally spoilt bully-boy - and all in the clear understanding that it won't have to pay any price whatsoever because America is there to protect it. Because the American political elite are a bought and paid for class of corrupt smooth talking crooks.

    The other opposing argument is that the world might easily be a far more peaceful place without America's constantly wrecking havoc and engaging in wars and military incursions and perpetual regime change in nations (HERE) that refuse to bend their knees to American pressure.

    I prefer that "other" argument quite a lot because I'm sick of American wars and regime change. They've been present throughout my whole life (and I'm an old guy now).

    It's not so hard as you're trying to make out. Under international law a war or military incursion has to be approved by the UN - or as in the case of Russia and Iran in Syria, invited in to the country by the mandated government of the sovereign state (Syria).

    What is clearly illegal is the USA's presence of military forces in Syria - uninvited and unapproved by the UN.
     
  2. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Alert! Truth contortionist at work! Alert! Truth contortionist at work! Alert!

    MAC-7 and the truth: bedfellows on the opposite sides of the world....
     
  3. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak too much about Syria as I haven't metaphorically "gone there"
    I doubt Syria or Russia are that interested in International Law, just look at
    the chemical attacks, secret nuclear reactor, mass killings of civilians etc..

    So there's multiple schools of thought. You take your pick depending upon
    your political persuasion. I support Israel because the Jews, the most hated
    minority on earth, originally came from there. The Palestinians never accepted
    any deal with the Jews. And Arabic style Islam is imperialist, theocratic, racist
    and murderous.
     
  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One side wants to live in peace, the other wants to kill all Jews. Meeting half way doesn’t work.
     
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  5. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    This is the Middle East Game as I see it.
    Arabs, usually with Russian backing, try to exterminate Jews.
    When the Jews are winning the Arabs (with Russian backing)
    seek a Security Council resolution to save the Arabs.
    If the Arabs are winning there will be no Security Council
    stopping them.
    And Jews can be attacked in the UN for doing some of the
    things lots of countries do every day on a much grander
    scale.

    So we talk about Palestinians being driven out of Israel
    (when in fact most fled or were told to go by their Mufti)
    but not the half million Jews driven out of Middle East
    countries where they have lived for far longer than Islam
    was even invented.) Have you read this particular POV
    in a newspaper or seen it on CNN lately?
     
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  6. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    Stop trying to be cute

    Because youre no good at it
     
  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's a pretty pitiful exchange for Trillions of dollars(1) & thousands of US lives wasted fighting wars for AIPAC(2)
    Somehow, US Troops were quietly stationed in Israel to defend Israel(3) (not the US) and US Troops are to be put under Israeli command if & when Syria responds to recent & repeated Israeli attacks on that country.

    Are YOU willing to die for Israel's regional hegemony & if not, why should any more Americans?

    America means one thing to Netanyahu & his gaggle of paid, trained & scripted cheerleaders:

    Netanyahu: “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away”

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060512...pecial_Reports/092105Madsen/092105madsen.html




    (1) "The Real Cost of US Support for Israel: $3 Trillion"
    http://www.ilaam.net/Intl/RealCostOfIsrael.html

    EXCERPT "While it is commonly reported that Israel officially receives some $3 billion every year in the form of economic aid from the U.S. government, this figure is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many billions of dollars more in hidden costs and economic losses lurking beneath the surface. A recently published economic analysis has concluded that U.S. support for the state of Israel has cost American taxpayers nearly $3 trillion ($3 million millions) in 2002 dollars."CONTINUED


    (2) "But few remember what AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr told the New York Sun in January 2003: "Quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq was one of AIPAC's successes over the past year."

    And in a New Yorker profile of Steven Rosen, AIPAC's policy director during the run-up to the war on Iraqi, it was stated that "AIPAC lobbied Congress in favor of the Iraqi war".

    https://www.sott.net/article/158160-And-the-winner-is-the-Israel-lobby


    (3) "US Commander: ‘US Troops Prepared to Die for Israel’ in War against Syria, Hezbollah"
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/israe...a-harbinger-of-war-on-syria-hezbollah/238768/

    EXCERPT "In addition, Israel has been laying the groundwork for an invasion of Syria since last year and is largely responsible for the current conflict in Syria that has raged on for seven years. Israel’s current push to invade Syria is also based on flimsy evidence suggesting that Iran is establishing bases in Syria to target Israel."CONTINUED
     
  8. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    You are pissin’ in the wind

    US support for Israel will never end
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    US govt foreign aid is about 25 billion dollars a year I believe.
    A fair bit of that goes to Egypt and Pakistan - Islamic states.
    Maybe there's a conspiracy here to support Islam?
    Until 1967 America gave nothing to Israel, and then only
    because of Russia's support for Arab nations.
    America today has an alliance with Israel, just as it does
    with Japan, Europe, Australia etc.. Let's make a conspiracy
    about this too.

    I thought the war in Syria was a civil war. I must be mistaken.
    And Israel about to invade? They could have done that in
    1967 and 1973 if they wanted to. Who wants Syria? And at
    the cost of a nuclear war with Russia. I am quite surprised
    with your allegation - should you go public with it? Any idea
    when it's going to happen? Why didn't it happen during the
    civil war when Damascus was weak and alone?
     
  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    Put more accurately:

    Foreign Colonial Powers decided to give over half of Palestine to foreign, Zionist Terrorist Gangs who proceeded to massacre Palestine's native residents, destroy their homes of generations and steal their land.

    Since then, $ Trillions in foreign aid & weaponry has further enabled Zionist ethnic cleansing, expansionism & nuclear regional hegemony.
     
  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Allies don't attack one's ships and kill its sailors and then attempt to hide it.
     
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  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    That is true. At least they shouldn't.
     
  13. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    I already supported the fact that bankrolling Israel & fighting wars for its near omnipotent lobbies has cost loyal Americans $ Trillions and thousands of American lives.
    Meanwhile, any aid to Israel is illegal under the Symington-Glenn Amendment(1) prohibiting any aid to non signatories of the NPT.

    No, America's "alliance" with Israel is not like other alliances in that Israel is actively attacking Syria, engaged in ethnic cleansing and US Troops in Israel are to be put under Israeli command in the event of the hostilities Israel is working to provoke.
    Elsewhere, US Troops remain under US Command with or without hostilities

    No, the war in Syria was not a civil war, it was a failed regime change to depose Assad via US & Israeli supported ISIS, al Nusra etc. which were defeated by the legitimate Syrian government, Hezbollah & the Russians

    I don't believe that Israel wants to invade Syria but will be content to keep it weak & fractured and seize a "Security buffer" as well as the Golan Heights.

    Netanyahu has made clear how he sees the US - Israeli "alliance":

    Netanyahu: “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away”

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060512...pecial_Reports/092105Madsen/092105madsen.html

    How can any loyal American knowingly support such a blatantly parasitic regime that is so destructive to US regional interests?



    (1) "Lawsuit Claims Aid to Nuclear Israel Illegal Under Symington Glenn Amendments"

    https://www.corporatecrimereporter....ael-illegal-under-symington-glenn-amendments/



    EXCERPT "A lawsuit filed in federal court in Washington, D.C. claims that United States aid to Israel is illegal under a law passed in the 1970s that prohibits aid to nuclear powers that don’t sign the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

    Such aid violates longstanding bans on foreign aid to non-signatories to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) with nuclear weapons programs, the lawsuit alleges."CONTINUED
     
  14. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Of course you do.

    You send them our money; you sacrifice our reputation on the world stage on their behalf; you support military interventions that serve their interests and not ours; and that's just for starters.

    And what about our other, more important allies like Canada, the UK, France, and Germany? You put Israel above them as well. Half our country and most of the civilized world was in favor of the Iran deal made by Obama, but people like you supported trashing it for no other reason than Israel.
     
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  15. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    Israel's influence over our political system costs the country trillions of dollars, complicates our relationship with far more important allies, and even restricts our civil liberties. Oh, and Israel attacked one of our naval vessels, killing dozens of US personnel and injuring many more. And all the available evidence proves that Israel did this deliberately in an attempt to frame Egypt.
     
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  16. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    No you don't.

    Anyone who supports sending US resources to defend or support Israel's interests is not putting America first.
     
  17. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    You are misinformed

    Jews are indiginous to what you call palestine and we call Israel

    Prior to statehood Jews paid hard cash for every acre of land they resettled

    Some Jews did engage in acts of terrorism mostly against the British such as the bombing of the King David Hotel

    So Jews are not above reproach

    But if the arabs had accepted the 1947 UN partition the palestinians would have a country today
     
  18. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Here's the other side of the coin.

    Israel's US lobby has been aggressively manipulating our political system in an attempt to get the US to fight Israel's adversaries, which has cost our country trillions of dollars, and which would cost it trillions more if Israel got its way.

    Add to that the fact that US wars in the Middle East have caused massive chaos while unleashing a torrent of anti-American and anti-western terrorism, and you have a decidedly negative return on our gigantic investment in that troublesome little country.

    You realize that we can trade and exchange with Israel without committing to the defense of their interests, right?

    So you admit that the US is in Syria primarily because its fighting Israel's war for it?

    Anyway, you are citing one minor benefit of being in Syria while ignoring the massive costs and risks of US occupation there.

    The destabilization of Syria by the US has created a massive refugee crises, killed hundreds of thousands of people, most of them innocent, cost taxpayers billions and billions of dollars, and has allowed groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS to exploit the power-vacuum in that country. It has also put massive strain on our relationship with Russia, who is a nuclear power that has nuclear missiles pointed at our cities on hair-trigger alert. One mistake, misunderstanding, or error could result in the end of the world as we know it, yet you believe some combat action for an F35 is worth that risk?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  19. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    The creation of Israel was done by displacing Arabs. Naturally, they were upset and resentful about it. If some international body showed up in your neighborhood and told you that millions of people from Europe and elsewhere would be moving in, you'd be pretty angry about it, too.

    And, no, Israel has not been fighting to preserve its existence, it's been fighting to EXPAND its territory at the expense of the people who already lived there.

    At any rate, NONE OF THIS MATTERS. The fight between Israelis and Palestinians is really none of America's business. America has more than enough of its OWN PROBLEMS to deal with without having to take sides in an ancient blood feud between Jews and Muslims on the other side of the planet.
     
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  20. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    Those countries are not facing extinction by arab armies

    Isreal is, plus the crazy persians
     
  21. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    That is untrue

    There was to be a State of Israel and whatever the palestinians chose to call their country

    But the arabs refused that peaceful solution
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  22. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    In other words, you put the interests of Israel above the interests of America because you feel sorry for Israel.
     
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  23. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Israel was created by foreign powers displacing the people who already lived there. That is a fact.
     
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  24. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    FDR had an answer for that

    He said it was in our best interests to help a neighbor when their house is on fire before it spreads to our house too

    Israel and America are allies because we are two sane countries with mutual interests
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  25. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    The “forein powers” you refer to were in fact the United Nations

    NOt my favorite organization but it is normally respected by libs

    And no arabs were displaced by the partition
     

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