Is Torture EVER justified in your opinion?

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by Crcata, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. Crcata

    Crcata Banned

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    The person who was the most interested in conflict there was the liberal. If you were actually paying attention.

    Its a very good indication of reality. Liberals arent interested in discussion. They make their point and scream racist at any counter points. The more the counter argument destroys their narrative, the louder they scream.
     
  2. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Yeah like one person represents entire groups of people unlike the thousands of bigoted Tea Party fanatics who carried hate filled placards of Obama as a monkey or made other racist comments.
     
  3. Crcata

    Crcata Banned

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    He is a very accurate representation of liberals. It's on this forum, the news, school campuses, etc. Face it, liberals are racist, hateful, hypocritical creatures.
     
  4. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    I think torture should never be allowed, except a few special cases. For example we can allow torture in form of castrating the subject, but not in form of breaking his bones or leaving permanent damage on his skin. Most modern tortures are by chemical mind altering though.
     
  5. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    The odds of two people looking alike negates any "clear" video argument.

    http://www.livescience.com/52103-does-everyone-have-a-look-alike.html

    The only way you'd know is if the person was tracked 100% of the time and not based upon their appearance that can be so close to the appearance of complete strangers that it would be impossible to tell based upon a video. Two unrelated people can look so much alike that often a person that knows neither of them personally can't tell the difference in person based solely upon their appearance.
     
  6. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    We know that some are because a 2012 study indicated that 32% of Democrats express explicit racial prejudice..... and that's slightly less than half as many when compared to the 79% of Republicans that expressed explicit racial prejudice in the same study.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/27/racial-prejudice-worsened-obama

    Of course for Republicans that was just the first four years of President Obama's administration and the prejudice had increased from 71% to 79% in just those four years. That was an 8% increase and based upon the Trump election we can pretty much assume that rate of increase occurred between 2012-2016 and now it's up to 87% of Republicans being "racists" in America.
     
  7. Crcata

    Crcata Banned

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    No it doesn't not negate anything. The odds of 2 people looking exactly alike and being in the same city at the same time are so small it's irrelevant. What a ridiculous thing to say lololol. Completely false. Your willingness to allow innocent people to die is noted however.
     
  8. Crcata

    Crcata Banned

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    Your studies are the most biased lolol. Liberals project hate at massive rates and openly support racist terror groups like blm. You are again, objectively wrong. Post more fake stats lolol. Yall were so right about the election polls to! Lolol
     
  9. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, like your heroes in the racist Tea Party are "'librul".
    LOL.
     
  10. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Actually the odds are almost certain that in a large city there will be hundreds of people that look virtually alike and that would be indistinguishable on a video tape. Obviously the vast majority won't have an indistinguishable double but that doesn't change the fact that hundreds and perhaps thousand of people living in a place like Los Angeles do. I had one growing up in the San Fernando Valley named Norman Mull and, while I never personally met him, others that knew us both commented to me about it often enough so that I still remember his name 50 years later.

    Don't know where the idea comes from that I would willingly allow innocent people to die because I'd prefer to use the interrogation techniques that have proven to be by far the most effective means in securing accurate information. I'd suggest that anyone that would choose the far less reliable means of employing torture (according to every expert on interrogation) is putting any potential victims at a far greater risk.
     
  11. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I heard a comment from a top member of the Democratic Party about "living in the bubble" and he admitted that both Republicans and Democrats often live in the bubble but then he pointed out a difference. The Right-Wing Republican bubble is impenetrable while the Democratic bubble can be penetrated with facts.

    It's unsurprising today that any study done that disagrees with the Republican bigotry and prejudice is automatically called a biased study and fake even though these studies are subjected to extensive peer review, undisputed by any other study, and generally supported by other studies done on the same issues or topics.

    It is this fact that lends credibility to the label of "science-deniers" when it comes to Republicans because their bigotry and prejudice is stronger than even the most well established facts.

    For example Black Lives Matters is not a terrorist group while the KKK that endorsed Donald Trump is the foremost terrorist group in American history.

    We also see denial in another form by the "Right" in a recent case. After Trump was elected a survey of 10,000 teacher reported 25,000 anecdotal cases of bullying that were overwhelmingly of minorities that were black, Hispanic, or Muslim children in our schools.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/in-surve...ost-election-surge-in-bullying-000528082.html

    The SPLC is considered a liberal organization justifiably because it supports civil rights (conservatives oppose civil rights) so there just had to be a right-wing response and their was.

    http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=55933

    It reports at least 2,000 cases so let's round that up to 2,500 cases just to keep the math simple. So the fact is that the bullying of minorities was ten-times (25,000 cases reported) greater by the white kids than the bullying of white kids (2,500 cases reported) that could have been coming from anyone including other white kids.

    This is like the "racist" white rebuttal to hate crimes where they say blacks attack whites based upon racism and it's true, they do, but that ignores the fact that a black person is roughly 22-times more likely to be the victim of a racially motivated hate crime by a white person than a white person is of being a victim of a racially motivated hate crime by w black person according to the FBI hate crime statistics database.

    My Republican friends on another forum pointed out "riots" at the anti-Trump rallies after the election. There were thousands of peaceful anti-Trump rallies across the country so they pointed out Portland OR where rioting had broken out at an anti-Trump rally. In doing a little investigation I found out that at least one of these cases related to a group of "white anarchist" (according to the police reports) that showed up at the protest and the "anarchists" started rioting, breaking windows, and destroying public property while the Trump protestors were trying to tell them to stop.

    There have been a few cases of violence at BLM protests but they were never encouraged by the BLM. Blacks that have been repeatedly targeted and harassed by police due to anti-black racial prejudice in law enforcement (documented in federal court cases) have gotten fed up to the point that they become violent. That's not an excuse for their behavior but it's not all that surprising either.

    Of course the right-wing racists complain because the blacks get violent after all of the abuse and oppression they face daily in their lives because of the anti-black prejudice. Apparently the right-wing racists believe the blacks should just "Take it in the ass and enjoy it like good little black boys."
     
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, it is barbaric.

    You must be a huge Jack Bauer fan!
     
  13. Crcata

    Crcata Banned

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    Its barbaric to allow innocent people to die to protect criminals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Your studies are politically motivated and go against the self attesting truth that humans do not like pain and everyone has a threshold that can be broken. And if the information obtained is easily verified to be true or false it is objectively the best and fastest way to save lives.

    This is non debatable. If you still disagree with torture thats one thing, but to pretend it is not effective under the guidelines I have laid out is to "live in a bubble" as you so said.

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    Objectively incorrect. The odds are as close to impossible as can be. You can pretend otherwise, but you are factually wrong.

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    Liberals are, they pretend to be the people of tolerance but project hate and intolerance at massive rates.

    LOL+

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    The liberals idea of racist is someone who disagrees with them. So more liberal studies, how did your studies treat you in this election where you thought there was no chance Trump could win? lol
     
  14. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Right wingers are the most intolerant hatemongers anywhere. Here is yet another example of their hate:


    Pro-police Trump supporters attack anti-racist activists



    On their way to a restaurant after a party, New York City activists were physically and verbally assaulted Saturday night by Donald Trump supporters wearing ‘Blue Lives Matter’ wristbands, according witnesses.
    Initially 9 activists attending a party marking the end of their three-month organizing campaign space, ‘Decolonize This Place’, saw what was supposed to be a night of celebration and comradery interrupted by an unprovoked and politically violent hate crime. Four men approached the group leaving the party shouting “Trump Trump Trump!” and “Blue lives matter!” witness Patti Cruz wrote in a public Facebook post.

    Activist Peter Soeller tells me that their group was leaving the party reciting chants used in political demonstrations — behavior protected by the first amendment to the US constitution — when the group of Trump supporters approached them and attacked. Soeller suffered a minor fracture to his nose.
    Per Cruz’s description, “we had no time to film this racist and disgusting attack because some of us were too busy trying to pull Trump supporters off of Colin and the rest of the comrades.”
    Soeller and Cruz both describe being called “communists” and “......s” before being hit.
    “It got violent really quickly because they had the intention to fight. They were not there to troll. Either way, they were going to hit us at some point. I ran to Decolonize This Space and asked for a medic. Then the police came and separated the fight. It was probably in the window of 10 minutes,” witness Michael Basillas told me, later adding “this is what we’re going to be doing for the next four years.”
    “My jaw is a little swollen on the left side of my face and I have a couple of welts on my forehead from them punching me. These guys from across the street at the bar were watching us and following us. The got in our way and blocked us from moving. One or two of them took their shirts off after the scuffle,” activist Connor Hicks told me.
    Caribou of the group Bash Back NYC, who experienced the tail-end of the “brawl,” told me that three medics treated some of the injured back inside.
    Asked about the attackers, Caribou told me “I don’t even want to say they are alt-right because it politicizes the narrative when it’s really just queer bashing. The media is going to look at it like it’s the radical left versus the alt-right, but people can ostensibly see that the people that were targeted were queer, black and non-cisgender.”
    Activist Christian Velencia also suffered a minor injury to the knee. Colin Ashley can be seen below covered with blood from the attack.

    Top left: Christian Valencia being treated for an injury to his knee. Right: Colin Ashley covered in blood following the attack. Bottom: Ashley’s eye the following day.
    Ashley wrote to me the following: “I grappled with one of them after he had sucker punched one of the members of our group He ended up on top of me and landed several hits to my face. My face is extremely swollen and eye bruised. What’s important to remember is that these guys specifically targeted us as a mixed group of gay men and women of color. They yelled ‘fa.gg.ot,’ told others ‘go back’ to where they’re from and specifically pointed to me and yelled: ‘He’s a fu.c.k.ing fa.g.got.’”

    Activists with NYC Shut It Down have set up a press conference and rally asking people to “come and stand up” against “white supremacy and hate” at 55 Walker St, New York, New York 10013 outside of Decolonize This Space at 8pm.



    https://medium.com/@AlexR_NYC/pro-p...anti-racist-activists-8603518026d3#.imlximmkr


    https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*B1LbbA3dI950FW_i0N3xpw.jpeg



    Unpatriotic right wing hate and intolerance knows no end.
     
  15. SlightlyToTheRight

    SlightlyToTheRight New Member

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    I think in some instances, where OUR National Security is at risk, then yes, I believe in such things as waterboarding and other uses of torture. It helps, so why not use it. At least we're not cutting off heads and airing it on TV.
     

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